[slim] Squeezebox 3 common faults over time?

[mgraves]

I now have five SB3s, one of which was a recent purchase (used) from
Ebay. This new (well, to me...) unit powered up fine but appears to have
the same issue was one of my older units. The analog output of one
channel is extremely low. I suspect that this is a simple matter of a
bad capacitor. Perhaps even something that I could repair myself.

Is this something that is known to be a common fault over time? Are
there any notes on what to replace if I should wish to do the repair?

I could just add an external DAC and forget about the problem, but that
seems like a messy and potentially costly solution.

Thanks,
Michael Graves



Michael Graves

House: SB3, (4) Alesis M1-520s
Home Office: SB3, M-Audio BX5A D2, Berhringer B2092A subwoofer
Workshop: SB3, Alesis ProLinear 820s, JBL subwoofer
Back Yard: SB3, Dayton Amp, Definitive Tech AW6500s
In reserve: Berhringer B2031As, Berhringer B2092A subwoofer

SqueezeCenter on Asus Aspire Revo with 500 GB internal HD & 10 TB NAS

email: mgraves <at> mstvp.com
blog: http://www.mgraves.org
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[Recoveryone]

I have 2 working still and never had an issue with the analog output
channels. Now I will say its been years since I used the analog outputs
as I use Toslink now days for my connection, the SB3's I replace with
Touches use analog now days.



Slim Device Transporter wirelessly connected

2nd SqueezeBox 3 Wirelessly connected (MasterBedroom)

3rd SqueezeBox 3 Wirelessly connected (bedroom)

4th Squeezebox Duet wirelessly connected (bedroom)

5th Squeezebox Touch Wirelessly connected (livingroom)

6th Squeezebox Touch Wirelessly connected (downstairs bedroom)

Server (In garage)
running on Duo Core P4 3.0 GHz 4 gig ram
Windows 7 64 bit
350 Xternal gigHD
Verizon Fios wireless router w/HG antana
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[mgraves]

Oddly enough, I had one Touch. It was the very first SB to die on me. Of
the SB3's (Classics if you prefer) I have one that has the original
silver front & Slim Devices branding, and four Logitech models.

The fault is the same on two of them. Loss of level or complete loss of
one analog output.



Michael Graves

House: SB3, M-Audio BX5As
Home Office: SB3, M-Audio BX5A D2, Berhringer B2092A subwoofer
Workshop: SB3, Alesis ProLinear 820s, JBL subwoofer
Back Yard: SB3, Dayton Amp, Definitive Tech AW6500s
Front Yard: SB3, Dayton Amp, Definitive Tech AW5500s
SqueezeCenter on Asus Aspire Revo with 500 GB internal HD & 10 TB NAS

email: mgraves <at> mstvp.com
blog: http://www.mgraves.org
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[usbethjim]

You are not alone! I also have a Slim Devices SB3 that has a diminished
analog channel. I went with a little optical to analog converter to
hang on to the unit. Haven't gone back to the repair idea...

Here are a few links:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?84395-SB3-Left-channel-has-gone-very-quiet

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?71914-SB3-volume-output-lower-on-left-than-right-channel

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97833-Squeezebox-Classic-Right-channel-output-has-almost-no-volume

Good luck - let us (or at least me) know how it turns out - I might be
ready to try a repair?!?!

Jim



All wireless (Linksys WRT54GS) except NAS (ReadyNAS PRO - 3GB RAM - 5 X
1TB drives - XRAID2 - LMS 7.8.1 )
Squeezebox Boom - Anywhere with an AC outlet
Squeezebox (SlimDevices) SB3 - Fii0 D3 - Bose Radio - Kitchen
Squeezebox Touch > Hafler 100 preamp > Hafler DH-220 amp > Sima SSW-L6
EX Speaker selector= Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II - Living Room,
Definitive Tech ProMonitor 100 - Dining Room, Infinity US-1 - Porch
Ipeng 8 on an iPad controls everything!
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[Mnyb]

Yeah the failing capacitor in one channel .

Wifi card that breaks can make the player to reboot .

Failing psu ,can also make it reboot , failing PSU connector .

VFD displays that gets washed out .

The ir led in the remote can get loose .

You also have an odd bunch of software faults that a xilink reset fixes
.
It can also forgets it's Mac adress ,so that you have to look at the
sticker at the bottom and re-enter it again .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[ralphy]

I've often wondered if using the mono IR emitter in the headphone jack
on the SB3 could be the cause of the left channel failure.

Having used IR blaster on one of my SB3s for several years. A few
months ago I tried the analog outs only to discover it had developed the
left channel volume drop issue.

I have two other SB3s purchased at the same time and the analog outs are
fine having never used the emitter with them.

I ordered new caps, but have not yet replaced them as I'm concerned they
will just fail again if I continue to use the IR emitter.

Can anyone corroborate or refute my suspicions?



Ralphy

*1*-Touch, *4*-Classics, *2*-Booms, *1*-Reverted UE Radio
'Squeezebox client builds'
(https://www.mediafire.com/folder/4q8dvq20iyz9e/Builds) 'donations'
(https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=LL5P6365KQEXN&lc=CA&item_name=Squeezebox%20client%20builds&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donate_SM%2egif%3aNonHosted)
always appreciated.
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[usbethjim]

Post by ralphy
I've often wondered if using the mono IR emitter in the headphone jack
on the SB3 could be the cause of the left channel failure.
Having used IR blaster on one of my SB3s for several years. A few
months ago I tried the analog outs only to discover it had developed the
left channel volume drop issue.
I have two other SB3s purchased at the same time and the analog outs are
fine having never used the emitter with them.
I ordered new caps, but have not yet replaced them as I'm concerned they
will just fail again if I continue to use the IR emitter.
Can anyone corroborate or refute my suspicions?

My SlimDevices SB3 has never had anything attached to it except RCA
cable on the analog outs. Yet it has the left channel failure.

So I think your IR emitter theory is not a reality....

Any chance you might detail your repair (photos/words/diagrams) for the
rest of us?

Thanks
Jim



All wireless (Linksys WRT54GS) except NAS (ReadyNAS PRO - 3GB RAM - 5 X
1TB drives - XRAID2 - LMS 7.8.1 )
Squeezebox Boom - Anywhere with an AC outlet
Squeezebox (SlimDevices) SB3 - Fii0 D3 - Bose Radio - Kitchen
Squeezebox Touch > Hafler 100 preamp > Hafler DH-220 amp > Sima SSW-L6
EX Speaker selector= Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II - Living Room,
Definitive Tech ProMonitor 100 - Dining Room, Infinity US-1 - Porch
Ipeng 8 on an iPad controls everything!
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[ralphy]

Post by usbethjim
My SlimDevices SB3 has never had anything attached to it except RCA
cable on the analog outs. Yet it has the left channel failure.
So I think your IR emitter theory is not a reality....
Any chance you might detail your repair (photos/words/diagrams) for the
rest of us?
Thanks
Jim

Thanks Jim for debunking my theory.

I now at least have some incentive to make the repair.

At the moment I'm only using digital out on that SB3.

When/if I make the repair I will take some pics and notes.

Here is another thread on the subject.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?71914-SB3-volume-output-lower-on-left-than-right-channel

I've attached the pdf of the schematic for the SB2 DAC that Sean Adams
links to in that thread which is no longer active.
It's the same for the SB3 except the silk screen component names are
different.



Ralphy

*1*-Touch, *4*-Classics, *2*-Booms, *1*-Reverted UE Radio
'Squeezebox client builds'
(https://www.mediafire.com/folder/4q8dvq20iyz9e/Builds) 'donations'
(https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=LL5P6365KQEXN&lc=CA&item_name=Squeezebox%20client%20builds&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donate_SM%2egif%3aNonHosted)
always appreciated.
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[ralphy]

Post by ralphy
When/if I make the repair I will take some pics and notes.

Well, I finally replaced the C16 and C20 capacitors in my original
slimdevices sb3, back when you could by them without the wireless card.

I used aluminum electrolytic 10uF 16V caps, purchased from digikey.

P/N USA1C100MDD-ND NICHICON CAP ALUM 10UF 16V 20% RADIAL

If I had not already ordered the caps, I would have ordered 'these
non-polarity ones'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?71914-SB3-volume-output-lower-on-left-than-right-channel&p=851444&viewfull=1#post851444).

Opening the sb3 is quite easy, you just need a Torx 10 (T10)
screwdriver.

http://lowtek.ca/roo/2011/squeezebox-classic-repair/

Remove the 2 x T10 screws from the back and then remove the front face
plate.

With the face plate removed, unscrew the 4 x T10 screws from the front
and slide out the "guts". It's one piece.

I cut the capacitor leads down close to the size of the original surface
mount caps.

20353
20354

I attached the new caps with the same polarity as the original.

I opened a 3 year newer logitech sb3 to see if logitech had switched the
polarity of the caps, but they have not. They were the same as in my
original sb3. If they fail again.....I'll try them the other way.

Before.

20355

Original capactors removed.

20358

New ones installed.

20357

All back together now and both the analog out and headphone jack are
working great!


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Ralphy

*1*-Touch, *5*-Classics, *2*-Booms, *1*-Reverted UE Radio
'Squeezebox client builds'
(https://www.mediafire.com/folder/4q8dvq20iyz9e/Builds) 'donations'
(https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=LL5P6365KQEXN&lc=CA&item_name=Squeezebox%20client%20builds&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donate_SM%2egif%3aNonHosted)
always appreciated.
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[beepbeep]

Just registered to say thanks. My SB3 which has had one channel down for
years is now fixed thanks to the info above.


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[Fizbin]

I'm assuming you guys (who have this issue) have tried a new PSU?


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[Fahzz]

Post by Fizbin
I'm assuming you guys (who have this issue) have tried a new PSU?

Is this the first diagnostic step for an SB3 that won't power up? I
ordered a new PSU, but are there other things I can try while it is on
its way?



Living Room: Squeezebox v3 (Wired), Pioneer Elite VSX 80, KEF Q100's,
Paradigm SE center, SVS SB12-NSD Subwoofer, Energy Encore surrounds
w/ Harmony 650 Smart Remote
Dining Room: Paradigm Atom Monitor v.5
Anywhere Else As Needed: Boom
Router: Asus RT-N56U
Server: LMS Version 7.9, Dell Laptop (Wired), Windows 10 Home
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[effypoe]

Just wanted to thank ralphy for posting specifics with part numbers and
pictures. I was able to make the same repair and the analog outputs on
my Squeezebox classic are working wonderfully again.


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[tcutting]

Post by Fahzz
Is this the first diagnostic step for an SB3 that won't power up? I
ordered a new PSU, but are there other things I can try while it is on
its way?

Common issue is problem with WiFi card. You can try removing the WiFi
card to see if the SB3 boots up (requires opening the unit, however).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




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[Fahzz]

Post by tcutting
Common issue is problem with WiFi card. You can try removing the WiFi
card to see if the SB3 boots up (requires opening the unit, however).
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks. The PSU came in and the problem is solved. Bought two more
spares for eight bucks each. Can't live without this thing.



Living Room: Squeezebox v3 (Wired), Pioneer Elite VSX 80, KEF Q100's,
Paradigm SE center, SVS SB12-NSD Subwoofer, Energy Encore surrounds
w/ Harmony 650 Smart Remote
Dining Room: Paradigm Atom Monitor v.5
Anywhere Else As Needed: Boom
Router: Asus RT-N56U
Server: LMS Version 7.9, Dell Laptop (Wired), Windows 10 Home
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[gorlando]

21804218052180621807
I had the same problem posted by several people here and I decided to
follow the findings and replace C16 and C20.
I have used polarized capacitors 100uF / 25V since I had them at home,
the value of these capacitors is not critical, someone has simply
bypassed them and connected directly the DAC outlets to the analog RCA
sockets. The space is sufficient so I welded these large capacitors. The
SB-3 is now performing back as normal, nice sound and balanced channels
again!

Measuring the old capacitor I found they were in the range of 100 pF
instead of 10 uF!!

Thank you so much to this valuable
forum!218042180521807


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[vinnielo]

Another thanks from me, especially to ralphy for providing the helpful
photos.
I have a balanced Squeezebox once again!



RADIOFEEDS UK & IRELAND..[/B] AN UP-TO-DATE RADIO DIRECTORY FOR YOUR
SQUEEZEBOX/TRANSPORTER/UE SMART RADIO.. AVAILABLE FROM THE APP GALLERY.
BONUS: WITH OVER 700 REGISTERED USERS, THE SQUEEZEBOX SERVER APP (WITH
AAC STREAMS INCLUDED) IS AVAILABLE FOR MYSQUEEZEBOX, LOGITECH MEDIA
SERVER, SQUEEZEBOX SERVER, SQUEEZECENTER AND SLIMSERVER!
CLICK: *HTTP://WWW.RADIOFEEDS.CO.UK/SQUEEZE
[b]We now also list the BBC HLS streams!*
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[MrJohn]

Thank you so much everyone involved in this thread - The left channel on
my ageing SB3 went the other day and I was distraught :(

Then I found this thread and I just replaced the two capacitors as
described which cost me 59p :)

The left channel is now working perfectly again :) Brilliant!!!


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[wl1]

Post by ralphy
Well, I finally replaced the C16 and C20 capacitors in my original
slimdevices sb3, back when you could by them without the wireless card.
If I had not already ordered the caps, I would have ordered 'these
non-polarity ones'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?71914-SB3-volume-output-lower-on-left-than-right-channel&p=851444&viewfull=1#post851444).
Opening the sb3 is quite easy, you just need a Torx 10 (T10)
screwdriver.
http://lowtek.ca/roo/2011/squeezebox-classic-repair/
Remove the 2 x T10 screws from the back and then remove the front face
plate.
With the face plate removed, unscrew the 4 x T10 screws from the front
and slide out the "guts". It's one piece.
I cut the capacitor leads down close to the size of the original surface
mount caps.
All back together now and both the analog out and headphone jack are
working great!

Another C16 and C20 success here, thanks for posting the detailed
info.....[emoji851]




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[majones]

Well, I'm gobsmacked. I gave it a go per Ralphy's excellent guidance and
photos, and despite my not having used a soldering iron for 40 years it
all came together beautifully. A few tips. A bright guy on YouTube (Mr
Carlson's Lab) said to twist the electrolytic capacitors and snap them
off rather than the fiddly job of desoldering. It worked really well,
and I had good access to then clean-up the PCB pads with flux and solder
wick. Then I used the Kemet multilayer ceramic capacitors because they
lie flat and are easy to locate (but look nothing like capacitors).


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[rbl]

Post by majones
Well, I'm gobsmacked. I gave it a go per Ralphy's excellent guidance and
photos, and despite my not having used a soldering iron for 40 years it
all came together beautifully. A few tips. A bright guy on YouTube (Mr
Carlson's Lab) said to twist the electrolytic capacitors and snap them
off rather than the fiddly job of desoldering. It worked really well,
and I had good access to then clean-up the PCB pads with flux and solder
wick. Then I used the Kemet multilayer ceramic capacitors because they
lie flat and are easy to locate (but look nothing like capacitors).

My soldering skills were pretty bad at the best of times, and my
soldering iron is my Dad's from the 50s! Just wondering if I mess up
removing these capacitors, or putting new ones in, presumably the
digital outputs will continue to work? So then I can just get a DAC...
Am very tempted to twist them off as described elsewhere.

Also I am not sure whether to go for C16/20 or C21/23? I want the RCA
outputs to work, not the headphones. Regarding whether they are
correctly polarised, the black stripe on C16 is to the left away from
the PCI card, C20 is to the right, and on the C21 & C23 it is at the
bottom.


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[philippe_44]

Post by rbl
My soldering skills were pretty bad at the best of times, and my
soldering iron is my Dad's from the 50s! Just wondering if I mess up
removing these capacitors, or putting new ones in, presumably the
digital outputs will continue to work? So then I can just get a DAC...
Am very tempted to twist them off as described elsewhere.
Also I am not sure whether to go for C16/20 or C21/23? I want the RCA
outputs to work, not the headphones. Regarding whether they are
correctly polarised, the black stripe on C16 is to the left away from
the PCI card, C20 is to the right, and on the C21 & C23 it is at the
bottom.

I can confirm that twisting the caps works well on the SB3 PCB. I just
did a full board, no damaged pad. Much easier than having to desolder
them one by one. I gently push the top to make sure I'm not rocking them
while twisting, that's all.



LMS 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 - 5xRadio, 3xBoom, 4xDuet, 1xTouch, 1 SB2. Sonos
PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBoxOne, XBMC, Foobar2000,
ShairPortW, JRiver 21, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, , Pi
B3, B2, Pi B+, 2xPi A+, Odroid-C1, Odroid-C2, Cubie2, Yamaha WX-010,
AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5
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[rbl]

if I mess up removing these capacitors, or putting new ones in,
presumably the digital outputs will continue to work? So then I can just
get a DAC...
Also I am not sure whether to go for C16/20 or C21/23? I want the RCA
outputs to work, not the headphones. Regarding whether they are
correctly polarised, the black stripe on C16 is to the left away from
the PCI card, C20 is to the right, and on the C21 & C23 it is at the
bottom.

Any thoughts anyone on which capacitors to replace (RCA and headphone
outputs are affected equally), and is there any chance messing up the
capacitors will affect the digital outputs (I assume not)?


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[philippe_44]

Post by rbl
Any thoughts anyone on which capacitors to replace (RCA and headphone
outputs are affected equally), and is there any chance messing up the
capacitors will affect the digital outputs (I assume not)?

AFAIK, these are the capacitors close RCA/Jack (to the DAC). I think
it's a better idea to replace them all so that you have a SB3 ready for
another few years.



LMS 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 - 5xRadio, 3xBoom, 4xDuet, 1xTouch, 1 SB2. Sonos
PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBoxOne, XBMC, Foobar2000,
ShairPortW, JRiver 21, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, , Pi
B3, B2, Pi B+, 2xPi A+, Odroid-C1, Odroid-C2, Cubie2, Yamaha WX-010,
AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5
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[sgmlaw]

This is a nice thread to follow. I do a lot of electronics servicing
and restoration, from ancient tube classics to the later high end
pcb-based gear. I’ve worked on a few Squeezeboxes over the years.

For beginners in electronics servicing, desoldering and removing smd
style caps is little different from the larger radials. On a cheaper
non-eyelet style pcb pad such as used on this instrument, a twisting or
rocking action once a joint is heated will remove just about any radial
type. Just be sure to keep the pad hole open as the wet lead stub draws
through. If a solder sucker or braid will not open a closed up pad
hole, a heated scrap piece of lead cut from another cap will. Be sure
to never force anything from the side opposite the pad, or you can lift
the pad and weaken the trace.

Where there are excess leads after placing the new part, bending them
slighty once the part is seated will hold the part tight to the board
before soldering. Snip the remaining exposed leads after the joint has
cooled, and you have a repair indistinguishable from factory assembly.
Smds can be a little harder, as they often are pre-cut for machine
assembly. But still nothing like replacing an op amp or other chip,
which I do not recommend to novices.

For a slightly nicer sound, I have found that replacing the stock rca
output couplers (when they fail) with Silmics does well, and takes away
a little of the mid-fi tizz and haze that afflicts the SB3 and improves
the dynamics slightly. Quality parts do make a difference, especially
for anything directly in the signal path. Still, you are never going to
make a classic sound better than a touch or transporter absent using it
as a digital head end into something else.

The biggest issues I have encountered with the classics so far are the
awful power supplies, the balky wireless card, and a vfd that eventually
tires out. The only premature recapping I have had to do on them to
date are the above coupling caps. But as they are now approaching 15
years in service, I would not be surprised to see more mainboard cap
failures on them. The classic does not run hot as electronics go, but
it does not run cool, either. The warmer any device runs, the shorter
the mean capacitor life.

Happy servicing!


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[philippe_44]

My Classic v3 recently started scrolling uncontrollably (push up or down
arrow once, and display continues to scroll). Now it is DOA except for
a faint glow of the Toslink jack. I tried a new power supply; no
improvement.
Are there some obvious troubleshooting steps I could try?

1- Try ethernet
2- Remove the WiFi card and try again
3- if it works, re-seat CPU and WiFi cards
4- if it fails again, get a new WiFi card
5- if none of the above works, you can try changing capacitors on the
motherboard. See above comments on this thread. If you are in the EU,
contact @JoeMuc2009. If you decide to not try to fix it, don't bin it,
sell it for parts on eBay :)

I've personally experienced a couple of time the discplay scroll problem
and it was due to erratic connection b/c of failing power in the SB (not
the PSU). Changing capacitors fixes the issue



LMS 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 - 5xRadio, 3xBoom, 4xDuet, 1xTouch, 1 SB2. Sonos
PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBoxOne, XBMC, Foobar2000,
ShairPortW, JRiver 21, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, , Pi
B3, B2, Pi B+, 2xPi A+, Odroid-C1, Odroid-C2, Cubie2, Yamaha WX-010,
AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5
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[beels]

Thanks for the response.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I did try it without the WiFi card
installed. Dead.

Also, before I got the replacement PSU, I tried some other PSUs, so
maybe I fried some voltage controller or something.


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[Clive B]

Many thanks to those who have posted about this level imbalance problem
and solution. Another SB3 saved from landfill.


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[slartibartfast]

Post by mgraves
I now have five SB3s, one of which was a recent purchase (used) from
Ebay. This new (well, to me...) unit powered up fine but appears to have
the same issue was one of my older units. The analog output of one
channel is extremely low. I suspect that this is a simple matter of a
bad capacitor. Perhaps even something that I could repair myself.
Is this something that is known to be a common fault over time? Are
there any notes on what to replace if I should wish to do the repair?
I could just add an external DAC and forget about the problem, but that
seems like a messy and potentially costly solution.
Thanks,
Michael Graves

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=633195


This post says that the polarity of the output capacitors could be
incorrect so check that if you replace them.




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