Discussion:
[slim] Roon, a SqueezeBox ecosystem alternative ?
volpone
2015-07-27 20:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,
I’m a quite 10 years SqueezeBox ecosystem happy user.

I own a medium size music library (7000 albums mainly classical),
running LMS 7.9 on a ReadyNAS which also hosts Plex Server and my film
library.
I use mainly SBT's and SB3 feeding external DAC’s.

I’m using excellent *Erland’s Custom Plugins, Pippin’s Ipeng and
Mherger’s Smartmix* and gain access to TIDAL HIFI via *ickStream *

However i’m interested in my system future evolution (hard and soft) on
two main axis:



- *1) Sound Quality enhancement:* Squeeze devices replacement by more
"high-end » streamers;
- *2) User Experience:* Better navigation, UI, Metada agregation,
seamless integration between local data and streaming service;


I've read some positive chronicles about the emerging *Roon de Roonlabs,
https://roonlabs.com/*


- AudioStream: 'http:/www.audiostream.com/content/roon ... wmhhE3z.97'
(http://www.audiostream.com/content/roon-music-player-and-streaming-software#U71O7ktA8wmhhE3z.97)
- Computer Audiophile: 'http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-s ...
are-23986/'
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-labs-software-23986/)
- With Video: 'http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conte ... n-through/'
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/640-roon-roon-labs-video-run-through/)
- Hifi-Advice: http://www.hifi-advice.com/Roon-review-1.html
- Digital Audio Review: 'http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/ ...
ng-on-the/'
(http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/roon-review-part-1-walking-on-the/)
- Tone Audio:
http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/roon-is-here-worlds-first-in-depth-review/


IMHO key point is if they will be successful in deploying *RoonSpeakers
new protocol* to audio hardware vendors (network streamers, DAC, modern
integrated "connected" amps) witch are currently only using UPnP / DLNA
(and sometimes Airplay and Songcast) protocols.

I’m interested in feedback and discussion about potential Roon
alternative from Squeezebox users point of view?

Regards
Volpone



STREAM => SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | Touch - SB3 - Duet
- Boom - Ipeng (Iphone)
AUDIO => Rega DAC | Rega Brio amp | Harbeth SLH5+
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Giza2020
2015-07-28 09:30:49 UTC
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Will keep an eye on this and add input over on the roon forum.

Really only currently interested in a solution which utilises my
existing sb duet and boom plus squeezelite using hifiberry and all can
be sync'd together.

So there could be something here. ..quite a price tag but if it works
and incorporates spotify and a few other things then I'd be interested


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Julf
2015-07-28 11:24:51 UTC
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volpone wrote:
> Sound Quality enhancement: Squeeze devices replacement by more
> "high-end" audio streamers.

Just use an external DAC.

> IMHO key point is *if they will be successful in deploying RoonSpeakers
> protocol* to audio hardware vendors (network streamers, DAC, modern
> integrated "connected" amps) witch are currently only using UPnP / DLNA
> (and sometimes Airplay and Songcast) protocols.

Do we need another proprietary protocol?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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volpone
2015-07-28 11:42:41 UTC
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Julf wrote:
> Just use an external DAC.

I do ... also agree with you than from SQ point of view streaming
functions are less important than DAC.
Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital
output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic,
Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.

Julf wrote:
> Do we need another proprietary protocol?

That's my point ....



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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Julf
2015-07-28 11:46:56 UTC
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volpone wrote:
> Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital
> output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic,
> Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.

Archimago, are you listening? :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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Julf
2015-07-28 11:48:58 UTC
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volpone wrote:
> Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital
> output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic,
> Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.

Just curious, what do you think could/would cause any difference in the
sound?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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volpone
2015-07-28 12:04:35 UTC
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Julf wrote:
> Just curious, what do you think could/would cause any difference in the
> sound?

Price ?
Sorry but that's also my point.:)

Audiophiles magazines and fora are full of reviews about such huge
"differences" but technically i'm quite curious about the reasons ...



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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Julf
2015-07-28 12:23:25 UTC
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volpone wrote:
> Price?

That would indeed be the most important difference. The other being a
heavy, airspace-grade milled aluminium enclosure... :)

> Audiophiles magazines and fora are full of reviews about such huge
> "differences" but technically i'm quite curious about the reasons ...

If there weren't huge "differences", why would we need audiophile
magazines and fora? :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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volpone
2015-07-28 18:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Following a discussion (copied from i have today with philippe_44 about
*LMS /UPnP/ Roon and architecture & protocols comparaison.*
In some aspects this discussion is in line with this interesting old one
about UPnP and LMS see
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?95603-What-if-Logitech-pulls-the-plug

Volpone wrote:
> Hi philippe_44,
>
> Sorry because it is a little "off topic", but i appreciate your work and
> expertise in linking SqueezeBox ecosystem to UpNp renderers devices
> witch are sadly the only "high end" alternative to Squeeze audio
> devices.
>
> > > >
- What do you think about Roon from Roonlabs emerging solution, see
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104044-Roon-a-SqueezeBox-ecosystem-alternative
- And also what about Roonlabs UPnP criticism, see
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-wrong-with-upnp/2101/5
> > >
>
philippe_44 wrote:
> I don't know Roon well enough, but I'll look at it out of curiosity.
> About UPnP flaws, I agree this is very painful to deal with. I think
> there are 2 reasons.
>
> - It tries to do everything and to accommodate all the different
> industry vendors. As a result, this is the "camel = a race horse
> designed by a committee" problem.
> - There is no really good interoperability certification/validation so
> basically it is a jungle of non-interworkable devices (servers, control
> point, renderers).
>
> Working myself is systems that rely heavily on standards, I know how
> important it is to make the specification simple (don't offer 3 methods
> to do the same thing just to please vendors), avoid ambiguity as much as
> possible and because there are always ambiguities, then organize a very
> strong validation/certification system. The amount of renderer
> variations I had to deal with for my simple application is simply
> amazing ... I could also add that I think UPnP misses at least one very
> important feature for me: audio synchronization (UPnP 2.0 does but
> nobody seems to adopt it)
>
> About the thread, I read it quickly. Some statements wrt UPnP pain
> points are correct I think, but there was a long discussion that showed
> misunderstanding of what are network transport, sampling and clock rates
> and how they are (not) related, so I stopped a bit at that point as it
> is difficult to follow an argument where some of the initial hypothesis
> are wrong.
>
> I am personally, to be honest, satisfied with what I have from
> ex-Logitech. I'm a tinkerer, so I do my own PCB, 3D prints and software,
> so with squeezelite and RaspberryPi, it is easy to transform any other
> device/speaker into a LMS system, fully integrated, even if
> (unfortunately) Logitech does not develop any more hardware. It was a
> difficult learning curve, but I now know squeezelite very well so I can
> fix it if needed. What I'm still frustrated with is not being successful
> to synchronize my Sonos with squeezeboxes, but I'm still working on it,
> it will just be a lot of work ;-) If I can make that work, then that
> would give me all I want in term of tinkering possibilities as well as
> pre-made good looking devices (as you can guess, I'm not an audiophile
> high end guy).
philippe_44 wrote:
> I don't know Roon well enough, but I'll look at it out of curiosity.
Thank you Philippe, interested in your feedback especially on
RoonSpeakers.


philippe_44 wrote:
> About UPnP flaws, I agree this is very painful to deal with. I think
> there are 2 reasons.
>
>
> - It tries to do everything and to accommodate all the different
> industry vendors. As a result, this is the "camel = a race horse
> designed by a committee" problem.
> - There is no really good interoperability certification/validation so
> basically it is a jungle of non-interworkable devices (servers, control
> point, renderers).
>
>
> Working myself is systems that rely heavily on standards, I know how
> important it is to make the specification simple (don't offer 3 methods
> to do the same thing just to please vendors), avoid ambiguity as much as
> possible and because there are always ambiguities, then organize a very
> strong validation/certification system. The amount of renderer
> variations I had to deal with for my simple application is simply
> amazing ... I could also add that I think UPnP misses at least one very
> important feature for me: audio synchronization (UPnP 2.0 does but
> nobody seems to adopt it)
Very interesting !


philippe_44 wrote:
> About the thread, I read it quickly. Some statements wrt UPnP pain
> points are correct I think


The LINN extensions (aka OpenHome) solve a lot of functional problems
(Gapless playback, playlist management ..) isnt'it ?


The point about the lack of "brain" in UPnP architecture seems real for
me. The application logic is in the server but also in the control point
and sometimes in the renderer.
How such a model could be effective to manage huge library with a lot of
metadata ? For example the Lumin IOS app (one of the best today) use
MinimServer for the tag tree but all the database management is running
on the IPAD. I would prefer a true client / server model like SqueezeBox
/ LMS.


philippe_44 wrote:
> but there was a long discussion that showed misunderstanding of what are
> network transport, sampling and clock rates and how they are (not)
> related, so I stopped a bit at that point as it is difficult to follow
> an argument where some of the initial hypothesis are wrong.


I'm interested in comparing the different protocols and architecture
UpnP / AirPlay / SongCast / LMS (slim) / RoonSpeakers with a not too
deep technical approach but to understand the main differences and pros
and cons.
Any link ? Any schematics ?


philippe_44 wrote:
> I am personally, to be honest, satisfied with what I have from
> ex-Logitech. I'm a tinkerer, so I do my own PCB, 3D prints and software,
> so with squeezelite and RaspberryPi, it is easy to transform any other
> device/speaker into a LMS system, fully integrated, even if
> (unfortunately) Logitech does not develop any more hardware. It was a
> difficult learning curve, but I now know squeezelite very well so I can
> fix it if needed. What I'm still frustrated with is not being successful
> to synchronize my Sonos with squeezeboxes, but I'm still working on it,
> it will just be a lot of work ;-) If I can make that work, then that
> would give me all I want in term of tinkering possibilities as well as
> pre-made good looking devices (as you can guess, I'm not an audiophile
> high end guy).


I like too the LMS ecosystem but even if i'm not a true "Audiophile" i
care about sound quality and above all user experience as a "melomane".
In this aspect Roon seems interesting for a classical music lovers who
like to "discover" new musics.



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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philippe_44
2015-07-28 18:32:15 UTC
Permalink
As a continuation of
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102496-announce-squeeze2upnp-a-bridge-between-LMS-and-uPNP-devices&p=825439&viewfull=1#post825439
volpone wrote:
>
> The LINN extensions (aka OpenHome) solve a lot of functional problems
> (Gapless playback, playlist management ..) isnt'it ?
>
Seems to although UPnP offers gapless. Not all players implement it
though and all seems to do it a bit differently. Still, there is no
smart transition option.
>
> The point about the lack of "brain" in UPnP architecture seems real for
> me. The application logic is in the server but also in the control point
> and sometimes in the renderer.
> How such a model could be effective to manage huge library with a lot of
> metadata ? For example the Lumin IOS app (one of the best today) use
> MinimServer for the tag tree but all the database management is running
> on the IPAD. I would prefer a true client / server model like SqueezeBox
> / LMS.
>
That I agree. In fact, I personally never heavily used UPnP/DLNA because
of the interoperability problem but also because it is totally unusable
as soon as you have any large library, the control point discovery phase
takes forever. I know some are happy with various CP like BubbleUPnP. I
can't say that I've used it much, so I'm not talking out of experience,
but everytime I tried, I gave up quickly compared to what LMS + iPeng
gave me in term of UE. To some extend, and at the risk of creating some
angst, the strength of LMS (having a central server) is also a weakness,
especially relying on a home computer (assuming not using
mysqueezebox.com) is the complicated and unreliable part for
non-technical users. I'm sitting here at the home of friends that have a
LMS system but don't use it because of this complexity. They moved to
Sonos just because the installation and management is much easier for a
non technical person. I've tried to revive LMS by installing it on a
cubieboard2 so that they don't have to rely on a big, always-on, crashy
computer. Having said that, the openess of LMS makes it a much more
powerful solution than Sonos (I can testify that on my own plugin
development and current pain with Sonos)

>
> I'm interested in comparing the different protocols and architecture
> UpnP / AirPlay / SongCast / LMS (slim) / RoonSpeakers with a not too
> deep technical approach but to understand the main differences and pros
> and cons.
> Any link ? Any schematics ?
>
Not really above what can be found on the web. As you pointed out,
AirPlay and LMS assume pretty basic clients and the server/cp has to do
the job. UPnP has this tri-component complexity that makes difficult to
have many CP, I think. LMS and UPnP expect the client to integrate the
codec which make thing complicated sometimes, especially if you want a
large ecosystem of vendors (but that's not the case for LMS). I also
think that the client side of UPnP is too complicated, leaving too much
room to the player and I'm not sure OpenHome solves this. I did not see
if OpenHome was adding synchronization which is a big thing in my
opinion
It would probably take a large post to list differences and I'm sure
other people have smarter comments than mine on these topics.

>
> I like too the LMS ecosystem but even if i'm not a true "Audiophile" i
> care about sound quality and above all user experience as a "melomane".
> In this aspect Roon seems interesting for a classical music lover who
> like to "discover" new musics.
>
Something I know from my professional life is that it is *extremely*
difficult to design a SW client/protocol and expect it to be adopted by
various HW vendors. However good is your solution, vendors like to
either do their own (customer lock-in) or 'improve/re-implement' yours
and here you go ... To have adoption of SW clients in embedded world,
you need to have the scale so that HW vendors see the non-adoption of
your SW client as a threat for them to loose share. And to create scale
you need adoption - chicken and egg, quite often.


Thank's and Regards.
Volpone

PS: Sorry for my english i live in Paris.



LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1,
PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne
(sort of)
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volpone
2015-07-28 21:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Philippe_44, very interesting insights.



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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Cebolla
2015-11-23 19:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Volpone

With Roon now close to releasing a SqueezeBox supporting version of its
server and thanks to Phillipe's excellent squeeze2upnp application,
you'll likely be soon able to have Roon being streamed by UPnP/DLNA
supporting streamers and even Chromecast audio players (via Philippe's
squeeze2cast)!
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103728-Announce-UPnPBridge-integrate-UPnP-DLNA-players-with-LMS-%28squeeze2upnp%29&p=836632&viewfull=1#post836632

John


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volpone
2015-11-24 15:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Hello Cebolla,

Thank you for the insights about possible UPnP - DNLA and Chromecast /
Roon interoperability via Philippe's excellent squeeze2upnp application.
I'm too very impatient to evaluate Roon SqueezeBox devices support to be
released very soon:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043/114

i'm also interested in future RoonReady devices via RAAT SDK and also
RoonSpeakers software on nano devices:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roonready-a-quick-update-from-roon-labs/5104/22

I'm testing Roon since 4 months (while still using LMS) and like it but
i'm restricted to use AirPlay via AppleTV device to feed my DAC.
Glad to see Roon ecosystem is growing.

Regards
Volpone



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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volpone
2015-11-28 18:05:39 UTC
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Roon streaming to SB3, Touch (EDO) and Boom.
Seems to be released soon according to
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043/142

19346


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Lyster
2016-04-11 04:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Ever since Logitech dumped the Squeezebox I've been looking for a
replacement (for future needs and expansion). I'm currently in the
14-day trial period for Roon - and it's wonderful. Plays to all my
Squeezebox devices - and AirPlay devices as well. Organizes all my
music, and makes it accessible. In fact, I am listening to music far
more often now. I have so many tracks that I haven't heard for so, so
long that it is bringing back to life. Yes I had the Erland plugins and
SugarCube, etc. And was running LMS 7.9. But this Roon is a full
generation ahead. I imagine this is where Logitech would have taken the
Squeezebox if it had persevered.

Roon is pricey, but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and subscribe.
I won't pay for the "lifetime" subscription, just in case Roon craps out
like Logitech did.


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jazzwave
2016-04-12 12:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Lyster wrote:
> Ever since Logitech dumped the Squeezebox I've been looking for a
> replacement (for future needs and expansion). I'm currently in the
> 14-day trial period for Roon - and it's wonderful. Plays to all my
> Squeezebox devices - and AirPlay devices as well. Organizes all my
> music, and makes it accessible. In fact, I am listening to music far
> more often now. I have so many tracks that I haven't heard for so, so
> long that it is bringing back to life. Yes I had the Erland plugins and
> SugarCube, etc. And was running LMS 7.9. But this Roon is a full
> generation ahead. I imagine this is where Logitech would have taken the
> Squeezebox if it had persevered.
>
> Roon is pricey, but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and subscribe.
> I won't pay for the "lifetime" subscription, just in case Roon craps out
> like Logitech did.


Any sound improvement by running Roon via SB devices?

~ron (not roon)_ :)


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Mnyb
2016-04-12 19:13:27 UTC
Permalink
jazzwave wrote:
> Any sound improvement by running Roon via SB devices?
>
> ~ron (not roon)_ :)

No there is no mechanism for that a bit perfect stream to a networked
player is just that .

That's one of the main points with squeezeboxes and other networked
players or "endpoints" roon has its own standard RAAT for manufacturers
to use if they wish to design new hardware btw, the player becomes
server agnostic .
Sound quality or not is provided by the player the server serves and
everyone is happy 😊 .
I remember 15 years ago when one connected the *computer* and it was a
ton settings ASIO or WASAPI drivers kernel streaming and whatnot that I
don't have to bother with anymore .... And the new addition fake
optimiser programs and special "better" software players for your PC .
And you had to minor or those settings in you ever changing computer
environment

My server is in another room and it does not even have audio in its its
OS or any hardware for it . The players are close to my listening zones
.

I lurked around the roon forum a bit , they do have something going on
very nice , but I wait to test to at least > 1.2 I'm happy to beta test
stuff , but thier product is only 1 year old ? And some parts needs work
to get basic functionality .
For example their play cue , just no . And the lack of other services
than tidal . No Spotify no disco ! And no Tune in ? Or much of Internet
radio at all .
They have to get down to earth and use other services based on API
rather then demand custom work by the service to get the perfect
database integration , that's a nice admirable goal but it does not
survive reality .
I will absolutely try it at one point ,they are about one the only
current contenders in this area . Sonos is little but dead end imho and
Logitech killed their product ? But it's alive :)



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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Julf
2016-04-12 19:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Mnyb wrote:
> Sound quality or not is provided by the player the server serves and
> everyone is happy :)

And, almost magically, it makes no difference if the connection between
the server and the player is a $1000 ethernet cable made from pure
virgin mountain gold, or is a 10000 mile internet connection of fibre
optics, repeaters, routers and exchange points...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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firedog
2016-04-15 07:18:59 UTC
Permalink
Roon has now released "RoonSpeakers" - endpoint software that makes
audio HW compatible with Roon.

Anybody have an idea if an SBT could be hacked and this software
installed on it?

I'd be interested, as it would enable music streaming from Roon to a
Touch, without using the present Roon solution, which is a stripped down
type of SB "server" that doesn't include use of plugins, etc.



GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. CAPS4 Pipeline w/Sonore PS running
Windows 8/1 >Wyrd USB>Regen USB?Mytek 192 DSD DAC;Odyssey Kismet
(Khartago case) Stereo Amp; Devore Gibbon 9 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon
M20 (occasional use); SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car;SB
Boom and SB Touch in additional rooms.
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Julf
2016-04-15 12:50:57 UTC
Permalink
firedog wrote:
> Roon has now released "RoonSpeakers" - endpoint software that makes
> audio HW compatible with Roon.

Does it use a proprietary protocol, or some more open / compatible /
future proof solution (a la AES67)?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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mdconnelly
2016-04-15 14:50:06 UTC
Permalink
I'm a long time LMS/Squeezebox user - nearly a dozen years now... I owe
a huge debt of gratitude to all those that have kept LMS afloat after
Logitech ditched it. So for me to consider leaving it behind is no
easy decision.

With that said, the rich Roon UI and environment runs circles around it.
More importantly, it's getting the level of development & financial
support that sadly, Logitech never gave LMS and Squeezeboxes. Numerous
tools have cropped up (like Moose & Muso) that have served as great
front-ends to LMS. Muso, particular, has a pretty slick UI. But still,
not the content-and-functionality rich environment that Roon has
established. IMO, Roon is a game-changer in how I listen to music and
continues to evolve in a substantial way. My biggest hold-outs against
Roon were the lack of phone control support and it's inability to stream
radio. Well, Roon v1.2 just released now does that very nicely. And
while there is no Spotify integration, Roon's integration with Tidal is
exceptional. And then there is Roon's significant efforts to work with
other hardware manufacturers to get their equipment 'RoonReady'.

I will say that while Roon can stream to any Squeezebox or Squeezelite
device (which is very cool and how I first learned about Roon), it
simply treats them as end-points. So the slick UI of the Touch or SB
Radio will not work other than as an on/off switch. But given that
I've been controlling my Squeezeboxen via iPeng for years, I really
don't have a problem with that and can just as easily now control them
via the Roon Remote app.

Last but far from least... the various plugins and LMS functionality
that I've come to know and love (and yes, often not all that easy to
know and love over the years) is lost in the Roon environment. Even if
someone could find a way to implement the Roon RAAT protocol within a
Squeezebox, it still would lose all the LMS plug-in functionality we've
come to love. But then, much of that is either already in Roon or on
their roadmap.

Am I ready to turn the LMS lights off? Hmmm, I don't know... maybe.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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marflao
2015-11-29 09:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi volpone,

I must admit that I haven't followed the Roon/Squeezebox integrations
totally.

To be able to use Roon streaming would it mean that instead of a LMS
version Roon needs to be installed?
Will this be a kind of Roon server version which can be installed on a
Nas or is the installation only possible on pc/Mac?

In case it can be installed on a Nas is there some prerequisite on the
Nas side therefore dsd can be played?

I'm asking this because I thought I would be able to play dsf files via
my Synology (pinkdots LMS version) /SBT combo but due to the fact that
my Nas is "too old" (not the right Arm version) it didn't work out.




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volpone
2015-11-29 11:24:28 UTC
Permalink
marflao wrote:
> Hi volpone,
>
> I must admit that I haven't followed the Roon/Squeezebox integrations
> totally.
>
> To be able to use Roon streaming would it mean that instead of a LMS
> version Roon needs to be installed?
> Will this be a kind of Roon server version which can be installed on a
> Nas or is the installation only possible on pc/Mac?
>
> In case it can be installed on a Nas is there some prerequisite on the
> Nas side therefore dsd can be played?
>
> I'm asking this because I thought I would be able to play dsf files via
> my Synology (pinkdots LMS version) /SBT combo but due to the fact that
> my Nas is "too old" (not the right Arm version) it didn't work out.

From my limited understanding on SB devices support as Roon endpoints
(due to not enough information from RoonLabs):

- You need to subscribe to Roon service and install Roon Core server
(annual or lifetime subscription, not free !).
- Only Mac and Win versions available. Headless Linux version are on the
way but no timeline and due to Roon server requirements on CPU and RAM
only very few powerfull NAS will be compatible.
- SB devices support (SB3, Touch, Boom ...) is only one way: SB devices
as "passive" endpoints for Roon audio streams, no control and commands
(i hope some "now playing" metadata on SB screens but not sure).

So it's not a real SB ecossystem alternative but however very usefull
for people using Roon and SB devices (and squeezelite).

I'm a long time LMS / SB user and i will continue to use it in parallel
with Roon due to some SB ecosystem capabilities not supported in Roon
(mainly radio support and some others functions available via plugins)

More to come when RoonLabs released the new SB compatible version (i
hope in 2015 :eek:)
Some limited informations are available on this this thread
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043

Regards



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
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marflao
2015-11-29 14:12:41 UTC
Permalink
volpone wrote:
> From my limited understanding on SB devices support as Roon endpoints
> (due to not enough information from RoonLabs):
>
> - You need to subscribe to Roon service and install Roon Core server
> (annual or lifetime subscription, not free !).
> - Only Mac and Win Roon versions available. Headless Linux version are
> on the way but no timeline and due to Roon server requirements on CPU
> and RAM only very few powerfull NAS will be compatible.
> - SB devices support (SB3, Touch, Boom ...) is only one way: SB devices
> as "passive" endpoints for Roon audio streams, no control and commands
> (i hope some "now playing" metadata on SB devices screens but i'm not
> sure).
>
> So it's not a real SB ecossystem alternative but however very usefull
> for people using Roon and SB devices (and squeezelite).
>
> I'm a long time LMS / SB user and i will continue to use it in parallel
> with Roon due to some SB ecosystem capabilities not supported in Roon
> (mainly radio support and some others functions available via plugins)
>
> More to come when RoonLabs released the new SB compatible version (i
> hope in 2015 :eek:)
> Some informations are available on this this thread
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043
>
> Regards

OK...will keep an eye on it once the Linux version will be available.

Thanks so far.




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d6jg
2015-12-02 17:16:25 UTC
Permalink
I had a nosey and Roon seems to be compatible with some high end "end
points" and also with anything AirPlay. In their FAQs it points out that
AirPlay is 16/44.1 only. Has anyone been able to establish what the SB
player bitrate is with Roon?



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
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volpone
2015-12-02 17:29:13 UTC
Permalink
d6jg wrote:
> I had a nosey and Roon seems to be compatible with some high end "end
> points" and also with anything AirPlay. In their FAQs it points out that
> AirPlay is 16/44.1 only. Has anyone been able to establish what the SB
> player bitrate is with Roon?
- The Roon version compatible with SB devices is not released yet, but
it seems near ...
- IMHO Roon will stream every bitrates SB devices can play, no
limitation from Roon side



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
'see details & photos here, 4 slides'
(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1icpPBYH_gxzcdRBn5Gl28FNBTRxgQaDhk7UnxiPclhU/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000)
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d6jg
2015-12-02 20:35:14 UTC
Permalink
I have had a more detailed read now and I see that they are working on
24/192 capability and also DSD.
As I read it Roon is a possible replacement for LMS with a greater
metadata based database (.net?) but currently lacking some of the
features that make LMS as great as it is.
Have you direct experience of it with a player(s) other than a SB?
What is the synchronisation like? It claims multi player sync.
Does it create heavy bandwidth on your internet connection when it is
building its database? Or is it dynamic lookup based as and when you
play something?
Crucially for me it's control app would have to be pretty special to
oust iPeng from my iPhone and we would definitely need hi-res BBC
iPlayer access.
Are they developing a Linux headless server version?
What exactly is RoonPlayer?



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
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volpone
2015-12-02 21:12:40 UTC
Permalink
d6jg wrote:
> I have had a more detailed read now and I see that they are working on
> 24/192 capability and also DSD.
Yes.

> As I read it Roon is a possible replacement for LMS with a greater
> metadata based database (.net?) but currently lacking some of the
> features that make LMS as great as it is.
Yes, Roon is very "young" and not free. The other main feature is very
good content agregation with music content providers (only TIDAL now).
A lot of Squeeze / LMS features are not available (radio, smartmix for
example). Ui is good, metadata too, and also classical music management.

> Have you direct experience of it with a player(s) other than a SB?
> What is the synchronisation like? It claims multi player sync.
Yes i use it since few months. I use AirPlay to stream to ATV feeding my
DAC optical input. No experience in syncing.

> it create heavy bandwidth on your internet connection when it is
> building its database?
No it doesn't for me with a 7000 albums library but i use a good
Internet link.

> Or is it dynamic lookup based as and when you play something?
Database is local (near Gb) but there is some sync (metatada
refreshment). Bandwith and sync ressources are almost required for the
TIDAL contents agregation.

> Crucially for me it's control app would have to be pretty special to
> oust iPeng from my iPhone
Good UI on IPAD but no Iphone app yet.

> and we would definitely need hi-res BBC iPlayer access.
Not yet, but Roon is young an they plans to add others externals
services.

> Are they developing a Linux headless server version?
Yes but not available yet.

> What exactly is RoonPlayer?
I don't know RoonPlayer.
RoonSpeakers is a small software intended to run on
WIN/MAC/Linux/ANDROID ...and others nano devices like raspberry to allow
them to act as "endpoints" and play the streams from Roon server (no UI,
only player). RoonSpeakers is not released yet but i hope i will before
2016.

Regards



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
'see details & photos here, 4 slides'
(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1icpPBYH_gxzcdRBn5Gl28FNBTRxgQaDhk7UnxiPclhU/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000)
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d6jg
2015-12-02 21:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Thanks I think I confused RoonPlayer with RoonSpeakers



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
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geekythings
2015-12-03 20:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Has anyone tried or is anyone using 'audio|acacia'
(http://www.plethra.com)? If so, what are your thoughts?

It looks functionally very similar to Roon, but appears to support more
music services and more endpoints and doesn't cost $500.

I see that there is also some interest in supporting Squeezebox devices
as endpoints on their feature request list.


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HalleysComet
2015-12-13 06:15:19 UTC
Permalink
I've been an enthusiastic user of LMS for many years now, although I'm
down to two players (a Touch & Transporter) down from a high of four in
the house at peak. I'm a huge classical music lover, with just over
25,000 tracks in my FLAC library. Thanks to Erland's plug-ins and many
hours of tagging, I'm fairly pleased with my ability to find music by
composer, conductor, orchestra, soloist, etc. I played around with a
friend's SooLoos system and thought it had nice search and metadata
look-up capabilities for classical music. When Roon was introduced, I
was excited until I saw the pricing. Understandable that all the
programming requires a business model, but more than I wanted to pay.
In particular I like the Tidal integration with Roon, although that's
another subscription.

I hear that there's a new release imminent for Roon which will include
Squeeze devices as end points for playback. I'll be extremely
interested to see how this works, and may even buy a subscription for a
year to provide feedback to the development team. I care little about
DSD+ high rez formats, but I would like to reward an actively supported
development program that's sensitive to the needs of classical music
lovers. Here's hoping it all comes together! If not, LMS still works,
and I could run another system in parallel if I had to.

I'll look forward to any experiences others are able to relate regarding
the Roon initiatives to include squeeze players!


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mftech
2015-12-17 13:17:08 UTC
Permalink
I installed Roon yesterday,
btw I found very offensive that you need to provide your credit card for
an evaluation.

I set-up Roon to connect with my NAS (VB 2.3), at first I found the
indexing to be pretty slow...even after several hours Roon was still
indexing...

Checking LMS I found out the LMS was also indexing (I use Auto
Rescan)...and then I realised the horror...

Roon was indexing and re-arranging all my music collection...with his
own scheme...

Hopefully I got a back-up...

I tested lots of music software, this is a first when the software din't
mention any warning about altering the music collection...very bad
design...

I should have point Roon to the read-only folder...my mistake...but the
software should mention that the collection will be altered...and why
Roon is destructive ?

Very disappointed...



Tête à FLAC

2 X SB Classic
2 X SB2
1 X SB Boom
1 X SB Touch
All SB controlled via VortexBox server aka The Musical Box
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Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-17 22:20:12 UTC
Permalink
mftech wrote:
> I installed Roon yesterday,
> btw I found very offensive that you need to provide your credit card for
> an evaluation.
>
> I set-up Roon to connect with my NAS (VB 2.3), at first I found the
> indexing to be pretty slow...even after several hours Roon was still
> indexing...
>
> Checking LMS I found out the LMS was also indexing (I use Auto
> Rescan)...and then I realised the horror...
>
> Roon was indexing and re-arranging all my music collection...with his
> own scheme...
>
> Hopefully I got a back-up...
>
> I tested lots of music software, this is a first when the software din't
> mention any warning about altering the music collection...very bad
> design...
>
> I should have point Roon to the read-only folder...my mistake...but the
> software should mention that the collection will be altered...and why
> Roon is destructive ?
>
> Very disappointed...

I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2

"Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized
Folder"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 transporter with touch for controlling,
1 squeezebox 3
6 squeezebox radio
3 squeezebox controllers
(+ a number of different squeezebox spares)
ipeng on IPhones and IPads
LMS with MusicIP under Windows Home Server 2011
on Dell PowerEdge 840 Server (Quad core Xenon X3210 @ 2.13 GHz, 8 GB
RAM)
ripping software: DBPowerAmp, tag editing software: Tag&Rename
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volpone
2015-12-17 22:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Otto-Wilhelm wrote:
> I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2
>
> "Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized
> Folder"

I second @Otto-Wilhelm.
I'm using Roon in parallel with LMS since few months.
My audio library is on my NAS filesystem and using Roon "Watched Folder"
option none of my files and folders were moved or modified.
LMS still work as usual on the same library too.



SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
'see details & photos here, 4 slides'
(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1icpPBYH_gxzcdRBn5Gl28FNBTRxgQaDhk7UnxiPclhU/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000)
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mftech
2015-12-19 22:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Otto-Wilhelm wrote:
> I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2
>
> "Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized
> Folder"

Yes...I understand my mistake...considering the danger, you should have
a second warning...and i'm probably the first one to make this
mistake...anyway my back-up is now terminated...still exploring Roon and
understand the benefits considering the high pricing...



Tête à FLAC

2 X SB Classic
2 X SB2
1 X SB Boom
1 X SB Touch
All SB controlled via VortexBox server aka The Musical Box
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mdconnelly
2015-12-20 01:42:54 UTC
Permalink
In anticipation of the Squeezebox support coming soon, I popped for a
lifetime subscription to Roon after having tested it for a week or so.
I have to say that I'm extremely impressed. If what you want is the
ability to get more engaged with your music (and less so with the
technology), then Roon is very compelling. I love the Roon UI and
functionality and rich metadata it provides. I always thought I was
quite meticulous at tagging, but a Roon scan (watched folders) quickly
showed about 8% of my 2500+ albums were unidentified. In looking into
it, I found tagging errors (mine) in quite a few cases that kept Roon
from identifying the album. A quick fix and Roon had no problem
identifying it.

Of course, it's not about to replace LMS for me (but does run quite
nicely in parallel for now). Two things it doesn't have (yet) that I'm
not about to give up anytime soon: internet radio streaming and iPeng!!
It does not have an iphone app (big mistake) and their iPad app -
while excellent by all accounts - requires a newer iPad and will not run
on my iPad 2.

But, damn, the Roon rich UI and metadata really does enhance just
sitting down to listen to music. And I can't wait to see how well it
handles Squeezeboxes as end points. It is incredibly promising.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-20 16:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Info an ROON, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 transporter with touch for controlling,
1 squeezebox 3
6 squeezebox radio
3 squeezebox controllers
(+ a number of different squeezebox spares)
ipeng on IPhones and IPads
LMS with MusicIP under Windows Home Server 2011
on Dell PowerEdge 840 Server (Quad core Xenon X3210 @ 2.13 GHz, 8 GB
RAM)
ripping software: DBPowerAmp, tag editing software: Tag&Rename
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VirusKiller
2015-12-21 17:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Squeezebox support has now been released.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-use-roon-and-squeezebox-devices-together/5865


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volpone
2015-12-21 17:22:58 UTC
Permalink
New version of Roon (V1.1, b88) is out and supports SqueezeBox devices
as "endpoints":
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-88-is-live/5676

- On SBT: Now playing (metadata and cover), volume control and ability
to pause and next / prev tracks.
- On SqueezeLite / SqueezePlay: Not officialy tested / supported but OK,
same as SBT
- On SB3: Only Roon logo

HQPlayer is also supported but i do not use it.
On my setup sound quality is OK (bitperfect) on the 3 SB devices.
LMS must be disabled but MySqueezeBox still available.

19509


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|Filename: Roon_SqueezeBox.png |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19509|
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SqueezeBoxServer 7.9 / ReadyNas Pro (x86) | SBTouch - SB3 - Duet - Boom
- Ipeng
SBTouch => Rega DAC => Rega Brio R amp => Harbeth SLH5 speakers
'see details & photos here, 4 slides'
(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1icpPBYH_gxzcdRBn5Gl28FNBTRxgQaDhk7UnxiPclhU/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000)
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audiomuze
2015-12-22 10:24:06 UTC
Permalink
volpone wrote:
> New version of Roon (V1.1, b88) is out and supports SqueezeBox networked
> devices as "endpoints":
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-88-is-live/5676
>
> - On SBT: Now playing (metadata and cover), volume control and ability
> to pause and next / prev tracks.
> - On SqueezeLite / SqueezePlay: Not officialy tested / supported but OK,
> same as SBT
> - On SB3: Only Roon logo
>
> HQPlayer is also supported but i do not use it.
> On my setup sound quality is OK (bitperfect) on the 3 SB devices.
> Multizone is available on SB devices via "Group" option.
>
> LMS must be disabled but MySqueezeBox still available.Been using it for the past 2 weeks and it works very well. Whilst
Squeezelite is not officially supported most of my use during testing
was on Squeezelite, albeit at one stage I had a Boom, Touch, Receiver
and Squeezelite all synced.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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audiomuze
2015-12-22 10:14:03 UTC
Permalink
mftech wrote:
> Yes...I understand my mistake...considering the danger, you should have
> a second warning...and i'm probably the first one to make this
> mistake...anyway my back-up is now terminated...still exploring Roon and
> understand the benefits considering the high pricing...Strongly disagree. The first warning screen is very clear. There comes
a point we as users need to take responsibility for our own actions and
decisions.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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mftech
2015-12-24 12:07:34 UTC
Permalink
audiomuze wrote:
> Strongly disagree. The first warning screen is very clear. There comes
> a point we as users need to take responsibility for our own actions and
> decisions.

Strongly disagree...considering that this action will alter your music
collection. At least a mention to back-up your collection.
Anyway I put my testing of Roon aside, way too much expensive
considering the benefit.



Tête à FLAC

2 X SB Classic
2 X SB2
1 X SB Boom
1 X SB Touch
All SB controlled via VortexBox server aka The Musical Box
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Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-24 13:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Roon is great. I consider to go for it in addition to my LMS-Squeezebox
setup. Squeezebox devices can be supplied directly from Roon with music
streams, but with the disadvantage that the LMS in the network has to be
shut down for achieving that a respective Squeezebox device connects
automatically with Roon. Alternatively you can connect a respective
Squeezebox device manually via the local device controls to Roon using
"Switching library".

Further, there is the option to supply Squeezebox devices with music
streams via Airplay, which Roon supports, and LMS with Shairtunes Plugin
and Shareport, what apparently requires LMS running under Linux.
Currently this is my favorite solution, since therewith Roon is in a
sense integrated with LMS. It has still to be tested whether this
configuration is stable enough.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 transporter with touch for controlling,
1 squeezebox 3
6 squeezebox radio
3 squeezebox controllers
(+ a number of different squeezebox spares)
ipeng on IPhones and IPads
LMS with MusicIP under Windows Home Server 2011
on Dell PowerEdge 840 Server (Quad core Xenon X3210 @ 2.13 GHz, 8 GB
RAM)
ripping software: DBPowerAmp, tag editing software: Tag&Rename
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mdconnelly
2015-12-24 14:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Hey, I've been a huge Squeezebox fan since the very early SlimDevices
days and I'm the last one to ever want to give up on it.

With that said, Roon is a game changer when it comes to how you listen
and explore your music. If you've got a large library of music, Roon
gives you a easy, intuitive, and extremely informative means to
rediscover music you've long forgotten you have. Hard to explain
without actually using it - which I have now for a couple weeks - but
I'm very impressed . The fact that I can now use it with all my
Squeezeboxen makes it an awesome solution for me. No, it cannot replace
LMS (yet), but what Roon offers in it's UI and metadata cannot be
touched by any other software I've seen.

So for me, it is definitely worth the price of admission.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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jfo
2015-12-24 19:01:37 UTC
Permalink
mdconnelly wrote:
> Hey, I've been a huge Squeezebox fan since the very early SlimDevices
> days and I'm the last one to ever want to give up on it.
>
> With that said, Roon is a game changer when it comes to how you listen
> and explore your music. If you've got a large library of music, Roon
> gives you a easy, intuitive, and extremely informative means to
> rediscover music you've long forgotten you have. Hard to explain
> without actually using it - which I have now for a couple weeks - but
> I'm very impressed . The fact that I can now use it with all my
> Squeezeboxen makes it an awesome solution for me. No, it cannot replace
> LMS (yet), but what Roon offers in it's UI and metadata cannot be
> touched by any other software I've seen.
>
> So for me, it is definitely worth the price of admission.

Can you be more specific about what makes it so much better? A few
examples would be helpful.
Thanks


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mdconnelly
2015-12-24 20:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Their UI and use of metadata makes it so easy to surf through your music
collection finding music and relationships you'd never know existed.
It's also extremely intuitive and quite beautiful. But yes, it's harder
to describe than it is to see. This video gives a pretty effective
glimpse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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R1200CL
2016-01-05 04:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Otto-Wilhelm wrote:
> Roon is great. I consider to go for it in addition to my LMS-Squeezebox
> setup. Squeezebox devices can be supplied directly from Roon with music
> streams, but with the disadvantage that the LMS in the network has to be
> shut down for achieving that a respective Squeezebox device connects
> automatically with Roon. Alternatively you can connect a respective
> Squeezebox device manually via the local device controls to Roon using
> "Switching library".
>
> Further, there is the option to supply Squeezebox devices with music
> streams via Airplay, which Roon supports, and LMS with Shairtunes Plugin
> and Shareport, what apparently requires LMS running under Linux.
> Currently this is my favorite solution, since therewith Roon is in a
> sense integrated with LMS. It has still to be tested whether this
> configuration is stable enough.

If you use the password function on LMS, will that not eliminate the
problem ?


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R1200CL
2016-01-05 04:27:54 UTC
Permalink
Can I still use iPeng for radio ?

If I have understood this right, that is an area where Roon is not up
and running.

Apart from that, you may use Room instead of LMS and iPeng. Is that a
correct observation ?
(As a Tidal hi-fi subscriber).


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Otto-Wilhelm
2016-01-06 07:35:26 UTC
Permalink
R1200CL wrote:
> Can I still use iPeng for radio through mysqueezebox.com ?
>
> If I have understood this right, that is an area where Roon is not up
> and running.
>
> Apart from that, you may use Room instead of LMS and iPeng. Is that a
> correct observation ?
> (As a Tidal hi-fi subscriber).

Yes, Roon can stream to Squeezebox devices. Problematic is a mixed
infrastructure with LMS as alternate streaming source. It seams, that
all Squeezebox devices (in any case Touch and Radio, but apparently also
Classic and Transporter) can be disconnected from LMS and connected with
RoonServer via the respective local UI. The problem is to connect it
back to LMS. This works with Touch and Radio, but apparently not with
Classic, since server side functionality would be needed. This might
also apply to Transporter.

There is a thread on the ROON forum dealing with these issues:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/lms-to-run-in-parallel-with-roon/6291/14

Another relevant threads is:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-use-roon-and-squeezebox-devices-together/5865

There are some other threads dealing with Squeezebox issues which can be
found with the search function using the keyword "Squeezebox".

I meanwhile got a ROON lifetime subscription but am determined to stick
to LMS as well.

For me ROON is a very nice and in a sense "must have" add on to my
current LMS/Squeezebox infrastructure. "Surfing" in your music
collection like in a Wiki can only be done with ROON. In "ROON" the
TIDAL catalogue of my TIDAL Hifi subscription is an integrated part of
this music collection. Unfortunately, Qobuz is not integrated into ROON,
and it is open whether this will happen. However, using ROON you find
music in TIDAL which one would not find using the TIDAL client. They
have much more Jazz and Classical music, even very new releases, than
one would expect!



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 transporter with touch for controlling,
1 squeezebox 3
6 squeezebox radio
3 squeezebox controllers
(+ a number of different squeezebox spares)
ipeng on IPhones and IPads
LMS with MusicIP under Windows Home Server 2011
on Dell PowerEdge 840 Server (Quad core Xenon X3210 @ 2.13 GHz, 8 GB
RAM)
ripping software: DBPowerAmp, tag editing software: Tag&Rename
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mdconnelly
2016-01-06 13:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Roon works fine with Touch and Duet. Haven't yet tried it with a
Classic but thanks for the heads-up. I would think that if you are a
Tidal and Squeezebox user, Roon would be a huge win. It is still a work
in progress hence the need and desire to continue using LMS for features
that don't (yet) exist in Roon such as internet radio. But there's
little question in my mind that Roon offers a window to your music like
no other platform I've used. I bought a lifetime subscription back in
mid December and had a blast using it over the holidays.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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R1200CL
2016-01-07 04:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for nice information. I also found some YouTube video showing UI
etc. I think at some stage I will purchase a subscription. If I don't
purchase a Auralic product as I understand Roon is then part of what you
get. Not sure if that is correct. Time will tell.


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R1200CL
2016-01-07 22:37:11 UTC
Permalink
You lucky Roon subscribers :D
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mqa-support-by-roon/88/23

They confirm MQA will at some time be implemented in their SW.
(Meaning you do not have to wait for SB implementation)


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agillis
2016-01-13 03:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Today Roon Labs released Roon 1.1 (build 94) this has better support for
Squeezebox endpoints and also support for the new RoonReady endpoints.
If you have a RoonReady endpoint like the new Sonicorbiter SE you can
play directly to your DAC over the network.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-94-is-live/6813



rip, tag, get cover art… All you do is insert the CD!
http://vortexbox.org

agillis
Lead Developer VortexBox
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DanSmedra
2016-01-23 01:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Can someone explain the basic signal/circuit path for streaming music
via: computer, Roon software, and Squeezebox Touch?



*Source*: TIDAL HiFi, Pandora One, other > MySqueezebox.com & LMS
7.9.0-ickStream plugin, using iPeng 9.0.3 app on iPhone6s/iPad
*Great Room*: SB Touch(1) > AudioQuest Toslink > PS Audio DL3 DAC >
Audio Envy interconnect 10' cables > 200w powered Martin Logan Purity
speakers, SB Touch(2) >JVC 110w amp > Martin Logan Motion 4 &
AudioEngine 5.
*Garage:* SB Touch(3) > Wyred mINT > Cullen Cables > Martin Logan Motion
12
*Carry Anywhere: *TIDAL and Pandora >iPhone 6s > Bose Mini Bluetooth
speaker.
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Jeff Flowerday
2016-01-23 20:37:13 UTC
Permalink
DanSmedra wrote:
> Can someone explain the basic signal/circuit path for streaming music
> via: computer, Roon software, and Squeezebox Touch?

Roon Core/Server (think of these as LMS) -> Squeezebox Touch.

Roon Remote computer installs or iOS/Android devices talk to the above
Roon Core or Server. Think of these as something like iPeng.



*squeezelite->sotm usb->devialet 200->focal 1028be speakers*
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reverendo
2016-03-03 22:03:06 UTC
Permalink
very interested. always wanted to find out if another server would make
the end result sound different.
it's a very high price, though, so will probably test for two weeks and
see how it fares against lms.
great thread, btw.



SB Touch (w/ EDO & Welborne PSU)>Resolution Audio Cantata Music
Center>Gryphon Diablo>Evolution Acoustics MicroOne
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mdconnelly
2016-03-03 22:51:41 UTC
Permalink
reverendo wrote:
> very interested. always wanted to find out if another server would make
> the end result sound different.
> it's a very high price, though, so will probably test for two weeks and
> see how it fares against lms.
> great thread, btw.

I'm using Roon and occasionally switch back to LMS to stream radio.
There are still quite a few benefits to using LMS that do not yet exist
in Roon, but what Roon has to offer can't be touched by anyone else.

I really don't hear a difference between streaming from Roon to a SB
Touch (then to my Devialet) vs streaming from LMS to a SB Touch (then to
my Devialet).



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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reverendo
2016-03-03 23:02:03 UTC
Permalink
mdconnelly wrote:
> I'm using Roon and occasionally switch back to LMS to stream radio.
> There are still quite a few benefits to using LMS that do not yet exist
> in Roon, but what Roon has to offer can't be touched by anyone else.
>
> I really don't hear a difference between streaming from Roon to a SB
> Touch (then to my Devialet) vs streaming from LMS to a SB Touch (then to
> my Devialet).
thanks for the input.
what else is missing from Roon, apart from Radio?



SB Touch (w/ EDO & Welborne PSU)>Resolution Audio Cantata Music
Center>Gryphon Diablo>Evolution Acoustics MicroOne
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mdconnelly
2016-03-03 23:16:12 UTC
Permalink
reverendo wrote:
> thanks for the input.
> what else is missing from Roon, apart from Radio?

No iPeng! There is still no iPhone app to control Roon and what does
exist for an iPad will only work on the newest iPads. But, Roon does
have such apps on their roadmap so I suspect we'll see it soon along
with radio.

The one other feature I personally use with LMS is the alarm scheduling
- either for my SB Radio or just to automatically turn my SBs on/off to
preset music. Roon claims that is also on their roadmap so time will
tell.

To be honest, I've used LMS for many years now - since the SB2 days --
and I find it very hard to give up. I have a huge respect for all those
that have continued to support and evolve it. Kudos to all. Who would
have thought it would still be thriving this many years after Logitech
dumped it.

But like everything in life, technology marches on and Roon seems like
an awesome path forward.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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reverendo
2016-03-03 23:36:27 UTC
Permalink
mdconnelly wrote:
> No iPeng! There is still no iPhone app to control Roon and what does
> exist for an iPad will only work on the newest iPads. But, Roon does
> have such apps on their roadmap so I suspect we'll see it soon along
> with radio.
>
> The one other feature I personally use with LMS is the alarm scheduling
> - either for my SB Radio or just to automatically turn my SBs on/off to
> preset music. Roon claims that is also on their roadmap so time will
> tell.
>
> To be honest, I've used LMS for many years now - since the SB2 days --
> and I find it very hard to give up. I have a huge respect for all those
> that have continued to support and evolve it. Kudos to all. Who would
> have thought it would still be thriving this many years after Logitech
> dumped it.
>
> But like everything in life, technology marches on and Roon seems like
> an awesome path forward.

thanks, Mike. appreciate the swift feedback.
Since I'm Android it seems that I'm covered. only problem is the price
tag :0



SB Touch (w/ EDO & Welborne PSU)>Resolution Audio Cantata Music
Center>Gryphon Diablo>Evolution Acoustics MicroOne
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garym
2016-03-04 01:13:20 UTC
Permalink
mdconnelly wrote:
>
>
> You shouldn't hear a difference unless something is broken on your end.
> Both LMS and Roon stream bitperfect audio to the player.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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Squeezed_Rotel
2016-03-04 09:34:16 UTC
Permalink
garym wrote:
> You shouldn't hear a difference unless something is broken on your end.
> Both LMS and Roon stream bitperfect audio to the player.

Thank You!



John
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oyvindo
2016-04-15 10:06:15 UTC
Permalink
volpone wrote:
> Hi all,
> I’m interested in feedback and discussion about potential Roon
> alternative from Squeezebox users point of view.

Stay with your LMS. There's none above it and none next to it when it
comes to music media management and distribution.
I have my LMS 7.9 running on a high end QNAP NAS and use to drive a
number of legacy squeezeboxes, as well as several Chromecasts, plus
various implementations of SqueezeLite such as the very nice one for
Kodi, and last but not least, any UPnP (DLNA) device. Players are in my
house, and in the houses of the rest of my family plus a few friends
across the globe.

My setup is 100% stable.
Most of it is shareware, opensource or public domain. The user domain is
huge and support Forums are excellent.
What more can you ask for?

Yes, I agree the LMS web interface is becoming a bit outdated and rusty,
but I seldom use it anymore cause there's really no need.
My favorite PC front end to LMS nowdays is Muso
http://klarita.net/muso.html - it beats Roon big time, both in
functionality as well as in Price!
My library has some 9000 albums, mostly pop and jazz.



QNAP HS-251 4TB RAID0, QTS 4.2.1 beta
Kodi 15.2 Isengard
Logitech Media server 7.9

QNAP TS-119 1TB Single, QTS 4.2.0 Stable
Logitech Media Server 7.9
MediaSonic 5.01
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firedog
2016-04-16 02:01:13 UTC
Permalink
oyvindo wrote:
> Stay with your LMS. There's none above it and none next to it when it
> comes to music media management and distribution.
> I have my LMS 7.9 running on a high end QNAP NAS and use to drive a
> number of legacy squeezeboxes, as well as several Chromecasts, plus
> various implementations of SqueezeLite such as the very nice one for
> Kodi, and last but not least, any UPnP (DLNA) device. Players are in my
> house, and in the houses of the rest of my family plus a few friends
> across the globe.
>
> My setup is 100% stable.
> Most of it is shareware, opensource or public domain. The user domain is
> huge and support Forums are excellent.
> What more can you ask for?
>
> Yes, I agree the LMS web interface is becoming a bit outdated and rusty,
> but I seldom use it anymore cause there's really no need.
> My favorite PC front end to LMS nowdays is Muso
> http://klarita.net/muso.html - it beats Roon big time, both in
> functionality as well as in Price!
> My library has some 9000 albums, mostly pop and jazz.

Thanks for not answering my question. Just so you know, I didn't like
Muso at all. It is like a childrens version of Roon. LMS is okay, but
behind the times at this point. Roon is superior to it in almost every
way in terms of UI.



GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. CAPS4 Pipeline w/Sonore PS running
Windows 8/1 >Wyrd USB>Regen USB?Mytek 192 DSD DAC;Odyssey Kismet
(Khartago case) Stereo Amp; Devore Gibbon 9 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon
M20 (occasional use); SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car;SB
Boom and SB Touch in additional rooms.
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dasmueller
2016-04-16 04:18:19 UTC
Permalink
I guess it all depends upon how one wants to listen. Personally I do not
use any of the streaming services. Being retired, I am way too busy for
that, also a dinosaur. I only listen to local music so LMS it is and
happy to say so !


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Lyster
2016-04-25 23:08:04 UTC
Permalink
firedog wrote:
> Thanks for not answering my question. Just so you know, I didn't like
> Muso at all. It is like a childrens version of Roon. LMS is okay, but
> behind the times at this point. Roon is superior to it in almost every
> way in terms of UIl

Roon is superior, I wholeheartedly agree. Roon is expensive, yes. That
is the only downside I can see. They are constantly upgrading the
product (unlike LMS). I'm going for it.... but I don't think I want a
lifetime license... Not yet anyway. Look where Squeezebox went, for
example. And with Roon you might be able to migrate away from Logitech
devices too.


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firedog
2016-04-26 05:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Lyster wrote:
> Roon is superior, I wholeheartedly agree. Roon is expensive, yes. That
> is the only downside I can see. They are constantly upgrading the
> product (unlike LMS). I'm going for it.... but I don't think I want a
> lifetime license... Not yet anyway. Look where Squeezebox went, for
> example. And with Roon you might be able to migrate away from Logitech
> devices too.

Last Christmas Roon had a "sale": give someone a subscription for about
30% off (including lifetime, which made it a much better deal). It was
supposed to be for "new" subscribers. But you could give yourself a
subscription by setting up a Roon account (free) and an email address to
send the subscription to. Check and see if they do it again near
Christmas. They will, by the way, also allow you to "top off" a yearly
subscription to a lifetime one if you decide to upgrade - you just pay
the difference in price.



GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. CAPS4 Pipeline w/Sonore PS running
Windows 8/1 >Wyrd USB>Regen USB?Mytek 192 DSD DAC;Odyssey Kismet
(Khartago case) Stereo Amp; Devore Gibbon 9 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon
M20 (occasional use); SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car;SB
Boom and SB Touch in additional rooms.
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michel
2016-08-15 15:22:23 UTC
Permalink
I just tried Roon for the first time.
Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly
and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.

Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to
replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).

Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I
don't think that is enough to convince me.


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garym
2016-08-15 16:15:30 UTC
Permalink
michel wrote:
> I just tried Roon for the first time.
> Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly
> and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
> I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.
>
> Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to
> replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).
>
> Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I
> don't think that is enough to convince me.

there's a setting in Roon to prefer your own tags and artwork over the
Roon metadata.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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firedog
2016-08-16 04:24:27 UTC
Permalink
michel wrote:
> I just tried Roon for the first time.
> Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly
> and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
> I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.
>
> Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to
> replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).
>
> Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I
> don't think that is enough to convince me.

Likely your Synology isn't powerful enough to run Roon. Check at the
Roon forum. There's a synology thread.
In Roon settings you can tell it to use your tags, etc instead of its
database
No reason it shouldn't play hi-res. I play all hi-res with it including
multiple X DSD. It means either you have to adjust settings, or that on
your NAS+Roon doesn't have the power.



GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. CAPS4 Pipeline w/Sonore PS running
Windows 8/1 >Wyrd USB>Regen USB?Mytek 192 DSD DAC;Odyssey Kismet
(Khartago case) Stereo Amp; Devore Gibbon 9 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon
M20 (occasional use); SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car;SB
Boom and SB Touch in additional rooms.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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bsergiu
2017-01-11 15:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi HiFi friends,

I was attracted to the Roon hype, looked into it and got confused.
I know that the HiFi world is a matter of taste and preferences, and the
argumentation for whatever equipment or software does not have to be
based on pure cold logic :) However, did I get this right, that Roon
wants me to pay them ~500 bucks and to buy a 500 bucks NAS / Mac Mini in
order to allow myself to listen to my own music, which I can do anyways
today? Hmmm ... If I look at apps like Synology native DS Video (as an
example, not as an alternative to Roon!) - which gives you a Roon-like
augmented experience of your own video media (ratings, reviews, info on
artists, pics, trailers, ...) with multi-device support - the price
(zero, subsidized with hardware) is much more realistic.
And one last word on "lifetime" pricing: it is their lifetime, not yours
:)

I understand this is a premium service, but dear Roon managers: you need
to find new financing models for this, to make it more attractive to
customers. Do not forget, your market segment are the geeks. Some of
them rich, but still geeks ;)

Long live my LMS infrastructure ;)


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mdconnelly
2017-01-11 16:22:32 UTC
Permalink
bsergiu wrote:
> Hi HiFi friends,
>
> I was attracted to the Roon hype, looked into it and got confused.
> I know that the HiFi world is a matter of taste and preferences, and the
> argumentation for whatever equipment or software does not have to be
> based on pure cold logic :) However, did I get this right, that Roon
> wants me to pay them ~500 bucks and to buy a 500 bucks NAS / Mac Mini in
> order to allow myself to listen to my own music, which I can do anyways
> today? Hmmm ... If I look at apps like Synology native DS Video (as an
> example, not as an alternative to Roon!) - which gives you a Roon-like
> augmented experience of your own video media (ratings, reviews, info on
> artists, pics, trailers, ...) with multi-device support - the price
> (zero, subsidized with hardware) is much more realistic.
> And one last word on "lifetime" pricing: it is their lifetime, not yours
> :)
>
> I understand this is a premium service, but dear Roon managers: you need
> to find new financing models for this, to make it more attractive to
> customers. Do not forget, your market segment are the geeks. Some of
> them rich, but still geeks ;)
>
> Long live my LMS infrastructure ;)

A Roon lifetime license is $499 or you can subscribe on an annual basis
for $119 I think. There is no requirement to buy a NAS or Mac Mini.
You can use whatever you're using for LMS and wherever your music is
currently stored - Mac or PC. Well, if you're using Linux, that may
not be true yet for Roon but soon will be.

The Roon attraction over LMS is simply that it is a far more elegant way
to manage your music plus Roon provides substantial metadata that most
users will simply not have embedded in their music files. Roon Labs is
also very proactive in their customer/community support and the
evolution of their product.

Hey, I've used LMS since the early SlimDevices days and have always been
a big fan. If you want a free system that just works, then there is no
need to look further than LMS. I started using Roon over a year ago
(admittedly jumped in when Roon was having a nice sale) and must say
that I can't imagine ever going back. IMO, Roon is what the Squeezebox
environment should have evolved into.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 SB Radio)
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garym
2017-01-11 16:32:27 UTC
Permalink
mdconnelly wrote:
> A Roon lifetime license is $499 or you can subscribe on an annual basis
> for $119 I think. There is no requirement to buy a NAS or Mac Mini.
> You can use whatever you're using for LMS and wherever your music is
> currently stored - Mac or PC. Well, if you're using Linux, that may
> not be true yet for Roon but soon will be.
>
> The Roon attraction over LMS is simply that it is a far more elegant way
> to manage your music plus Roon provides substantial metadata that most
> users will simply not have embedded in their music files. Roon Labs is
> also very proactive in their customer/community support and the
> evolution of their product.
>
> Hey, I've used LMS since the early SlimDevices days and have always been
> a big fan. If you want a free system that just works, then there is no
> need to look further than LMS. I started using Roon over a year ago
> (admittedly jumped in when Roon was having a nice sale) and must say
> that I can't imagine ever going back. IMO, Roon is what the Squeezebox
> environment should have evolved into.

Yes, the roon development team interactions with users is very much like
the early days of Squeezeboxes, where the developers were active
participants in the forums, etc. And the roon metadata experience
(which is very impressive, and more than just metadata, i.e.,
connections across things) seems to me to be exactly the sort of thing
that erland and colleagues were trying to get to in the LMS environment
(recall all the surveys they had a few years ago about how we interacted
with our music collections).

I've used roon, I've used SONOS. Sonos was a non-starter even beyond
not handling my library size. It's interface and what it can and can't
do was just too limited coming from LMS and its rich interface with
plugins. But I can understand how its plug and play works nicely for the
average consumer, particularly if all they do is stream online services.
Roon on the other hand is very impressive, not limited in the same way,
can deal with perfect sync multi room players, etc. Very nice. But it
can only work with the TIDAL streaming and doesn't have things like
podcast apps, or other services or a radio service other than enter a
manual URL. Is it worth the $$$. Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the
user. I don't find it overpriced for what it does, but I spent more for
dinner and wine last night than a year's membership, so its all
relative.

I'm still a very happy user of LMS and plan to be for a long time, but
I could easily see how Roon could be a supplement or replacement should
LMS die.

p.s. Roon does now work on linux.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win8(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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bsergiu
2017-01-12 13:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Thanks a lot for an objective feedback. I'll keep an eye on it ;) I do
have a lot of background in the software industry, so maybe that biases
me when judging the pricing. However, everybody seems to be happy with
the user experience they offer, so ... I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks!

Cheers,

Sergiu


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garym
2017-01-12 14:04:12 UTC
Permalink
bsergiu wrote:
> Thanks a lot for an objective feedback. I'll keep an eye on it ;) I do
> have a lot of background in the software industry, so maybe that biases
> me when judging the pricing. However, everybody seems to be happy with
> the user experience they offer, so ... I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sergiu

I'm told that Roon has significant ongoing expenses in licensing the
data they use in creating the user experience (which is the key value
added prospect of the product). If true, and I believe it is, this is
why the product can't simply be "free" or dirt cheap. My only complaint
is that their forums are full of "audio woo woo" believers. But I
ignore that stuff (it's hard, but I've given up on trying to "fix"
errors on the internet);)



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win8(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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mdconnelly
2017-01-12 14:13:50 UTC
Permalink
garym wrote:
> I'm told that Roon has significant ongoing expenses in licensing the
> data they use in creating the user experience (which is the key value
> added prospect of the product). If true, and I believe it is, this is
> why the product can't simply be "free" or dirt cheap. My only complaint
> is that their forums are full of "audio woo woo" believers. But I
> ignore that stuff (it's hard, but I've given up on trying to "fix"
> errors on the internet);)

"Audio woo woo" believers... AWW! I like that. I think what I've
observed is a lot of folks that have not lived in the trenches of
digital audio streaming... the trials and tribulations of ripping CDs,
tagging and organizing your music files, seeking cover art and
struggling to get and keep it all working. Many Roon AWW believers
seem new to this biz... Perhaps they've ripped a few CDs, but more
likely they're downloading their music, given little thought to tagging
and organizing files and likely using Tidal. For them, Roon makes it so
easy to plug and play and has opened a whole new world.

Ah, it's good to be a dinosaur.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 SB Radio)
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