Discussion:
Squeezebox without Logitech
truehl
2012-09-03 18:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,
I think it's time to join the debate. I've named the thread "Squeezebox
..." and not LMS because I like to ignore Logitech's last renaming act.

First I was a kind of shocked from hearing the news, but now I ask you:
Do we really need Logitech? As far as I know Squeezebox Server was and
still is open source?! Only the firmware is not open source.So we still
have a great server product and it should be possible to maintain and
further develope this great product by a community. So we need players
and remote controls. Remote controls are not a problem at all iPeng is
the best remote control for a music server I've ever seen! There are
other remote controls for nearly any platform. Are there still people
without smartphones or tablets? So we need players. We have software
players like SqueezeSlave and SqueezePlay. So we need Hardware for
Server and Player. What about Raspberry Pi? Raspberry Pi is a very cheep
hardware platform which can be use as a Squeezebox Server and a player
and if you like you can run server and player on only one device! This
device costs only 35 $.

All these products have nothing to do with Logitech. So we are ready to
go, aren't we?

To be serious, there is still something to do to run this setup as a
100% replacement of the existing players, but we are very close to this.
It's all up and running in my SqueezePlug project and meantime I'm
working on a completely new version with very good effort. One open
thing is to find a replacement for the sluggish internal sound card if
you need analogue or spdif sound-output. HDMI output already work
great!

So take a look at www.squeezeplug.de, and if you like join my project
and help to keep Squeezebox alive!!!


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pallfreeman
2012-09-03 19:17:31 UTC
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truehl wrote:
>
> First I was a kind of shocked from hearing the news, but now I ask you:
> Do we really need Logitech?
>

No. But we need lead developers for SBS, and they happen to be working
for Logitech at the moment.


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BTHOEM
2012-09-03 19:19:28 UTC
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The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued
satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the
Squeezebox technology to Open Source - client as well as server (incl.
plugins and remote control SW) and contributing to establishing a
development community, is the least I would expect of a company the size
of Logitech.

I am a bit surprised that there is no mention of such in the
announcement.

Bjørn Tore Hoem


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Labarum
2012-09-03 19:48:02 UTC
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My view precisely.

The value is in the software, and there is plenty of cheap hardware on
which to run it.

My problem. I don't have the IT skills, so I look forward to being led
by the hand by the excellent techies in this place.

Do I need to download a particular set of files now, before they
disappear, or will the useful files always be available in some open
repository?


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simbo
2012-09-03 19:52:57 UTC
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BTHOEM wrote:
> The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued
> satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the
> Squeezebox technology to Open Source [...]
> That is the least I would expect of a company the size of Logitech.
>
Why would they do that? They're a company not a charity. What's in it
for them? I doubt they want competition for their newly-branded UE
outfit from a technology they used to control.
Anyway, much of the SB technology is already open source anyway, and
many of the remaining proprietary parts are licensed to them.


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erland
2012-09-03 21:04:44 UTC
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BTHOEM wrote:
> The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued
> satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the
> Squeezebox technology to Open Source - client as well as server (incl.
> plugins and remote control SW) and contributing to establishing a
> development community.
>
I believe the things that can be open source already is.
The parts that aren't open source can't be because the third parties
that owns them doesn't allow Logitech to let anybody else redistribute
them. The Logitech logotypes and other graphics is not redistributable
but it's pretty obvious why Logitech doesn't want anybody else to
redistribute software with a Logitech logotype or Logitech graphics.

The only thing that isn't open sourced that possibly could be is the
Android and iOS controllers, but those aren't worth anything anyway as
there are third party iOS and Android controller apps already that are a
lot better than the Logitech apps.

mysqueezebox.com can't be open source because it contains API access
code from streaming providers which Logitech isn't allowed to show to
third parties.


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the nightfly
2012-09-03 21:15:05 UTC
Permalink
I applaud erland's (and other's) plans to keep SB alive post-Logitech,
but here's the most important immediate question: is there a forum or
other such site for SB to continue on if (when) Logitech pulls the plug
on this one? Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see it
happen very soon -- especially since I would guess management would not
be happy with the beating their company is receiving in the comments
here, nor in information about how to keep and perpetuate the old system
instead of us all rushing out and buying Ultimate Ears Smart Radios of
our very own.

I'm not aware of any venue that people could flock to should Logitech
shut this one down. If there isn't one, I could look into setting up a
mailing list for that purpose (at least as a backup option), but that
won't be necessary if a web forum or mailing list already exists. If so,
could you post the relevant information so I can start preparing my
post-Logitech life raft?


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routehero
2012-09-03 21:32:51 UTC
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There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.

I would be surprised if many in the "management" were reading these
forums.

Rest assured that the people that work on the Squeezebox infrastructure
are eager to keep it around and will advocate its long life.


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the nightfly
2012-09-03 22:02:09 UTC
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routehero wrote:
> There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.

Are these forums not owned and controlled by Logitech?


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pallfreeman
2012-09-03 22:14:55 UTC
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routehero wrote:
> There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.
>
> I would be surprised if many in the "management" were reading these
> forums.
>
> Rest assured that the people that work on the Squeezebox infrastructure
> are eager to keep it around and will advocate its long life.

Please excuse my impertinence, but I've been away for a while.

Who are you and how do you know this?


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aubuti
2012-09-03 22:37:00 UTC
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pallfreeman wrote:
> Who are you and how do you know this?
Just another bystander idly guessing, but I suppose the "Administrator"
designation (as opposed to our lowly "Senior Member" status) has
something to do with it. Also, past posts such as this one:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94424-Planned-outage-Wed-April-4th&p=699417&highlight=#post699417


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pallfreeman
2012-09-03 23:26:56 UTC
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aubuti wrote:
> Just another bystander idly guessing, but I suppose the "Administrator"
> designation (as opposed to our lowly "Senior Member" status) has
> something to do with it. Also, past posts such as this one:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94424-Planned-outage-Wed-April-4th&p=699417&highlight=#post699417

So, probably someone who pays the mortgage courtesy of Logitech but
still has a conscience, and is probably regretting poking his head above
the parapet.

Sssssh, then.


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erland
2012-09-04 05:03:04 UTC
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the nightfly wrote:
> is there a forum or other such site for SB to continue on if (when)
> Logitech pulls the plug on this one? Personally, I wouldn't be the least
> bit surprised to see it happen very soon -- especially since I would
> guess management would not be happy with the beating their company is
> receiving in the comments here, nor in information about how to keep and
> perpetuate the old system instead of us all rushing out and buying
> Ultimate Ears Smart Radios of our very own.
>
New and potential future UE Smart Radio customers probably go to their
official support forum at http://forums.logitech.com.

Due to this my guess is that Logitech management probably don't want the
critique to be on their official forum where it might scare away
potential new UE Smart Radio customers, I'm fairly sure they prefer the
critique to be here on the community forum than on their official forum,
facebook, twitter and in other places where it would be more visible.

Still, if Logitech would shutdown this community forum, let's just goto
their official forum at http://forums.logitech.com and one of us will
make sure to post a link there to a new community forum where we can
hang out instead of here. I don't want to spend time setting up a new
forum at the moment because I don't believe there is any risk Logitech
will shutdown this forum in the near future, but eventually this is
something that will happen, but it's probably at least a year or two
away.


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GeeJay
2012-09-04 06:40:01 UTC
Permalink
You can be sure, if Logitech lets its paranoia get the best of them, you
will start seeing much more drama on their site.

I'm not worried about that at the moment, because I still think there
are some products left to be introduced that might satisfy many of our
needs. They might not be perfect, but they may be good enough,
particularly if they can be tinkered with to give us the same
functionality we currently enjoy.

For that reason, I think they are gonna let us blow off steam a little
longer until they can get the next phase of their campaign rolling. When
you look at their new strategy of marketing their products on the web in
three separate units (business, peripherals and the UE audio line), they
gotta have something more cooking in this space than what they just
announced.


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HeadBanger
2012-09-04 16:40:45 UTC
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GeeJay wrote:
> For that reason, I think they are gonna let us blow off steam a little
> longer until they can get the next phase of their campaign rolling. When
> you look at their new strategy of marketing their products on the web in
> three separate units (business, peripherals and the UE audio line), they
> gotta have something more cooking in this space than what they just
> announced.

+ 1. Don't get me wrong I understand that as things currently stand
things look like they will change for the worse but I too think that
there must be something else on the horizon. Wishful thinking? I hope
not.


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BTHOEM
2012-09-04 17:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi Erland - just landed on this URL:
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/

Version 10 is called UE Music Library and looks very much like todays
SBS/LMS.
Do you know if it works as Squeezebox server for our current SBs?

Bjørn Tore


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erland
2012-09-04 18:32:55 UTC
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BTHOEM wrote:
> Hi Erland - just landed on this URL:
> http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/
>
> Version 10 is called UE Music Library and looks very much like todays
> SBS/LMS.
> Do you know if it works as Squeezebox server for our current SBs?
>
> Bjørn Tore
>
There are two versions of the 10.0 version:
- One version which launches the UEML (UE Music Library) version which
is only compatible with UE Smart Radio as I've understood.
- One version which launches the LMS version which I think is only
compatible with old Squeezeboxes, I'm not completely sure if it's also
compatible with UE Smart Radio. If I've understood it correctly, this
version is very unofficial and not something Logitech officially
support, tests and make official releases of.

As I've understood, the Windows and OSX binaries which are available
through uesmartradio.com launches the UE Music Library version.
I'm not sure which version the builds in the "nightly" directory starts.
If you install it you should be able to try if your Squeezeboxes are
able to connect to it or not.

This might all be a bit confusing but it's the way Logitech tries to
ensure that the LMS and UEML software is as similar as possible to make
it easy to include maintenance changes introduced for UE Smart Radio
also in a version which is compatible with the Squeezebox.

I have been planning to setup UE Music Library in my development setup
but I haven't had the time to do it yet, I'll know more after I've
tested it a bit.


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BTHOEM
2012-09-04 20:02:40 UTC
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Installed the version I found here:
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=10.0

Looks very much like SBS/LMS, but my SB's does not see it.

Bjørn Tore


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norderney
2012-09-04 21:51:59 UTC
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BTHOEM wrote:
> Installed the version I found here:
> http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=10.0
>
> Looks very much like SBS/LMS, but my SB's does not see it.
>
> Bjørn Tore

Very odd how this web page has the The heading
Squeezebox Software Beta Downloads - Version 10.0

Does this suggest that perhaps another update for SBS/LMS is planned? Or
have they just been lazy and forgotten to change the heading of the
page. Why would they develop version 10 for Squeezebox if they were
planning to discontinue support for the Squeezebox product line?


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bluegaspode
2012-09-04 22:12:22 UTC
Permalink
norderney wrote:
> Or have they just been lazy and forgotten to change the heading of the
> page.

This is the most obvious reason. It's a generated page, maybe it's even
not easy to just change the heaer.
As this is an unofficial page, I guess noone really cares (nor would I -
never realized this page had an actual heading :) )


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garym
2012-09-04 22:15:18 UTC
Permalink
norderney wrote:
> if they were planning to discontinue support for the Squeezebox product
> line?

They have never said they were going to discontinue support. In fact,
the only Logitech employee posting here has said the opposite. No new SB
products? Yes. But they have promised continued support for legacy SB
products, including mysb.com and even these forums.


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pallfreeman
2012-09-04 23:22:51 UTC
Permalink
garym wrote:
> But they have no plans to discontinue support for legacy SB products,
> including mysb.com and even these forums.

Michael wrote, denying: "LMS is dead" - It will continue to see some bug
fixing and updates to keep up with latest OS developments etc.

So, *some* bug fixing. Updates when absolutely necessary.

These days I'm a unhappy professional Solaris admin. I can smell Legacy
Software a mile off. But most companies make at least some effort to
drag their customers along with them when they introduce The Next Big
Thing. I don't feel that Logitech has understood this, and it ain't good
enough.

FFS, nobody has yet told me in any "official capacity", for certain,
that my SliMP3s are no longer supported by LMS!


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GeeJay
2012-09-05 00:00:19 UTC
Permalink
Do any of these non-SB alternatives sync properly with the SBs? Given
how long it took for the Squeeze team to get it right, that would be my
biggest concern.


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pallfreeman
2012-09-05 11:57:22 UTC
Permalink
GeeJay wrote:
> Do any of these non-SB alternatives sync properly with the SBs?
>

It depends what you mean by "properly". I find iPeng gets it almost
right, to the point where, wandering around the house, I don't notice it
as bad synchronization, it's more like being at an open-air festival.

Without some heavyweight algorithms to cope with the rubbish timers in
most hardware, it really depends on how much work the developer is
prepared to do to get it right on a specific platform.


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simbo
2012-09-05 12:03:55 UTC
Permalink
pallfreeman wrote:
> Without some heavyweight algorithms to cope with the rubbish timers in
> most hardware, it really depends on how much work the developer is
> prepared to do to get it right on a specific platform.
It may be possible to create a set of "latency profiles" for specific
hardware configurations (simple ones, like a Pi + a particular model of
sound dongle). These would need to be maintained by the community, but
would also need some support from the player software to allow these
different profiles to be loaded.


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pallfreeman
2012-09-06 09:53:39 UTC
Permalink
simbo wrote:
> It may be possible to create a set of "latency/timing profiles" for
> specific hardware configurations (simple ones, like a Pi + a particular
> model of sound dongle). These would need to be maintained by the
> community, but would also need some support from the player software to
> allow these different profiles to be loaded.

There was a guy in the XBMC forum a few weeks ago who was planning to
order a whole bunch of teeny little ARM+HDMI systems, about the same
size as a USB stick, from some bold Chinese manufacturer who was up for
doing 1000-unit production runs. I should go check how that all turned
out...


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bpa
2012-09-06 10:18:27 UTC
Permalink
A raspberry Pi solution means a case, psu, wifi etc has to be sourced
and so could be a lot of hassle and not for many end users.

If price is an issue, there are lots of "Allwinner A10" based systems
and as a possible Squeezebox replacement I think the Mele A100 looks
good. For about US$80 (from aliexpress.com) it needs a PSU but is
already boxed and has analogue audio, spdif, hdmi, wifi, IR control and
3 USB ports (see http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/mele-a100). It
would need to be tested to see the quality of audio but USB provides
opportunity for using better quality adaptors.


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Gadgety1
2012-09-06 12:02:45 UTC
Permalink
I'll check that Mele out. In the meantime someone on the RPi forum has
already ported LMS and Squeezeslave within the framework of Raspbian.

A quote:

"This how-to guide also includes setting up Squeezeslave, a Squeezebox
client. Squeezebox server and Squeezeslave can coexist on the same
Raspberry Pi so at the end of this how-to guide you will have a device
that can also play the music it serves."

See thread here:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10666

Intro: http://allthingspi.webspace.virginmedia.com/

How to: http://allthingspi.webspace.virginmedia.com/lms.php


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Labarum
2012-09-06 12:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Surely a few knowledgeable folk could make "a bit on the side" setting
up cottage industries to sell ready configured hardware to the likes of
me?

I ain't proud and I ain't fussy. A small hideaway box that did all the
necessaries would suite me very nicely.


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bpa
2012-09-06 14:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Labarum wrote:
> Surely a few knowledgeable folk could make "a bit on the side" setting
> up cottage industries to sell ready configured hardware to the likes of
> me?

I find it difficult to see the economics working out for a cottage
industry.

The basic spec of the unit looks good but for a cottage industry (i.e.
selling 100's) using a ready made box may not be the best way. For
example, the A100 seems to be unavailable now. To guarantee supply you
need bigger numbers. I expect the users to be SB users and so audio
quality might be an issue which means bundling in a USB audio i/f. So
for a cottage industry

The A100/A1000/A2000 approach might be better if enduse buys box from
Amazon and then cottage industry was selling a SD card which does all
the system setup (i.e replace Android with Linux + a soft player).
However with this approiach there is no opportunity to get any returns.

I think the cottage industry is only vaiable when there is a USP or
"secret sauce" such as hardware with good audio and a good clock
necessary for sync or perhaps a better software player with custm s/w
which has managed to get agreement from a Music streamer to play the
streams


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simbo
2012-09-06 14:35:47 UTC
Permalink
It's a shame the O2 Jogglers ('OpenFrame7'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?64373-OpenFrame-remote-for-SB))
are so hard to come by nowadays.

I have one, 'running SqueezePlay'
(http://birdslikewires.co.uk/articles/squeezeplay-os). The only downside
is the poor quality internal sound (with headphone socket) but I believe
some people have attached audio dongles instead. In effect it's a Touch
with a 7-inch screen.


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pallfreeman
2012-09-06 14:46:40 UTC
Permalink
The Asus O!Play boxes seem to have all the required connectors, and
they're easily hackable. But it looks like they've already been and
gone.


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bpa
2012-09-06 15:00:42 UTC
Permalink
One of the nice things about the Allwinner A10 based systems is that
they can be restored using USB and a Windows PC so supposedly impossible
to brick which can be an issue with repurposing other media players.
This A10 system (
http://store.cloudsto.com/android-mini-pc-s/a10-media-pc-8gb-nand-1gb-ddr3-ram-detail.html
) is a bit dear has 1Mb Ram (not sure how much GPU takes) but it would
seem possible to run a server as well as a player for when mysb.com goes
away. Given the pace of development it is likely that this spec would
become the norm for next years products.


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pallfreeman
2012-09-06 15:26:49 UTC
Permalink
bpa wrote:
>
> This A10 system (
> http://store.cloudsto.com/android-mini-pc-s/a10-media-pc-8gb-nand-1gb-ddr3-ram-detail.html
> ) is a bit dear has 1Mb Ram

1Gb. :)

Thanks for that URL. These are the products that the XBMC doods were
raving about last time I visited their forum.


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Labarum
2012-09-06 16:16:11 UTC
Permalink
It seems there is no shortage of boxes we can press into service.


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garym
2012-09-06 16:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Labarum wrote:
> It seems there is no shortage of boxes we can press into service.

without concern about ability to sync multiple players or connect to
paid music services, there is an almost unlimited number of choices for
playing digital music to one's home stereo.


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Labarum
2012-09-06 16:20:59 UTC
Permalink
garym wrote:
> without concern about ability to sync multiple players or connect to
> paid music services, there is an almost unlimited number of choices for
> playing digital music to one's home stereo.

Yes, I know. Great for me. I am only interested in playing my own
collection and streaming a few favourite radio stations.


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garym
2012-09-06 16:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Labarum wrote:
> Yes, I know. Great for me. I am only interested in playing my own
> collection and streaming a few favourite radio stations.

yep. Worst case for me is as someone else here already noted: I'll have
to select between two inputs on my preamp: one for playing my own
music/free internet radio and one for [fill in the blank, sonos?] for
playing other services. As noted, like going back in time and having to
select between "tuner" and "turntable" or "CD".....


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norderney
2012-09-06 17:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Anybody looked at the options from Linn, Cyrus and Naim? All of then
offer music streamers which will play your local music collection and
Internet radio via Ethernet and/or WiFi. I think some of them also offer
other services like Spotify. Just wondering how these compare to
SqueezeBox hardware. Obviously they all stream but do they offer all the
features found in LMS and iPeng app? Linn actually abandoned making CD
players a few years ago to consentrate on streaming devices. But they do
carry a very big price tag.


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Labarum
2012-09-06 17:28:54 UTC
Permalink
norderney wrote:
> But they do carry a very big price tag.

Not going there - it's rip off country.


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TheLastMan
2012-09-06 18:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Labarum wrote:
> Not going there - it's rip off country.
I agree, despite owning some fantastic Naim amps. Streaming is computer
technology - there is nothing mystical about it that needs "hi-fi"
expertise. Buy one of their DACs if you wish, or an amp with an inbuilt
DAC, but just plug a SB Touch into it. The sound quality is dependent
on the DAC - the digital out from the SB is just a stream of noughts and
ones.

BTW, the DACs in the SB devices aren't half bad for a start. Never felt
the need to go down the separate DAC route myself. But then my hearing
is the limiting factor these days!


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Labarum
2012-09-06 18:50:35 UTC
Permalink
I do have a concern that the alternative hardware pressed into use
should be able to deliver a clean bitream to a quality DAC.

I'm not an obsessive audiophile, but I would be keen to see decent
engineering standards maintained, and those need not be expensive.


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bpa
2012-09-06 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
garym wrote:
> without concern about ability to sync multiple players or connect to
> paid music services, there is an almost unlimited number of choices for
> playing digital music to one's home stereo.

At a guess, some user will not be happy with the analogue and spdif
interfaces on these boxes as they will not have been designed for
discriminating users. Support of USB DAC would be the key issue. Given
the difficulty that Triode had with Touch getting DACs to work propers
with Touch - a developer might make some revenue by creating a
satisfactory kernel and driver although given open licenses it might be
hard to be able to keep the changes secret.


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garym
2012-09-07 10:56:26 UTC
Permalink
bpa wrote:
> At a guess, some user will not be happy with the analogue and spdif
> interfaces on these boxes as they will not have been designed for
> discriminating users. Support of USB DAC would be the key issue. Given
> the difficulty that Triode had with Touch getting DACs to work propers
> with Touch - a developer might make some revenue by creating a
> satisfactory kernel and driver although given open licenses it might be
> hard to be able to keep the changes secret.

Excellent (and key) point regarding analog and digital out on these
"boxes". Thinking of all this simply reminds us of what a great little
package the TOUCH is. and all about $300 or less!


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pallfreeman
2012-09-06 12:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Gadgety1 wrote:
> I'll check that Mele out.

Amazon UK has the A2000 for 75 quid.


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psketch
2012-09-06 20:13:57 UTC
Permalink
"bpa wrote:
> A raspberry Pi solution means a case, psu, wifi etc has to be sourced
> and so could be a lot of hassle and not for many end users.
> .

Well, actually all of the places which sell the Pi, also sell them with
cases,psu, sd card etc.. You just pay a few pounds more. I have a bare
bones raspbian image with squeezeslave running automatically on startup.
Anyone that wants it, just yell. You can have a Pi based player
running with zero Linux knowledge for probably about £45. Not for
everyone of course, particularly with no spoof at the moment, but good
to have options.


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Labarum
2012-09-06 20:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Good to know there will be a solution available if I need one.


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Squeezemenicely
2012-09-04 10:36:27 UTC
Permalink
truehl wrote:
> What about Raspberry Pi? Raspberry Pi is a very cheep hardware platform
> which can be use as a Squeezebox Server and a player and if you like you
> can run server and player on only one device! This device costs only 35
> $.
> ...
> . One open thing is to find a replacement for the sluggish internal
> sound card if you need analogue or spdif sound-output. HDMI output
> already work great!
>
>

Yes a raspberrry Pi would make a pretty good SB alternative, but as you
wrote - there is no good analogue or SPDIF out - yet.
Also from what I understand streaming services like Spotify would not
work on the Pi, not even via the Spotify premium addon.

But, maybe ther is a plugplayer out there that has the connections and
Squeezeplug could also be transferred to that.

At the moment the only fullfunctional alternative I see is an iPod
running iPeng on a dock with SPDIF out. Adding the cost of the hardware
it would still be cheaper than a Touch.

But hopefully soon there will be more alternatives.


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Labarum
2012-09-04 15:33:22 UTC
Permalink
I have just installed Squeezeplayer for Android to my Nexus 7 Tablet
from Googleplay. Works a treat. here in my Southampton flat I have no
hardware Squeezebox but have been using Squeezeplay on a Windows 7 HTPC
which is in the cupboard next to the lounge just behind the TV and
speakers. A 3m optical cable connects the HTPC motherboard to my DAC-Pre
under the TV.

Now, if I go to the web interface on my little laptop (my usual means of
control) I see the Nexus as another player.

In my Nicosia bungalow I have an SB3 in the lounge and a Boom in the
Conservatory.

An old laptop in a cupboard in the hall runs LMS, and I could run a 15m
optical cable to the DAC in the lounge - that is certainly a future
option.

I do warm to the idea of running with the open source Squeeze software
and whatever hardware can be hijacked or hacked with the help of the
Squeeze community experts.

A Sheeva or Raspberry Pi display-less receiver would do me fine, but so
would an Android phone or tablet in a dock. The big issue is getting the
bitstream unmangled to the DAC.

I am hoping that is will soon be possible to get a quality bitream from
the micro USB on the Nexus 7. That Tablet in a landscape dock could
rival a touch for looks and features.

[image:
http://img.actualidadgadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/google-nexus-7-dock.jpg]


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bluegaspode
2012-09-04 16:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Wow - the Nexus + Dock looks indeed awesome


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Labarum
2012-09-04 16:09:54 UTC
Permalink
The dock only connects to the headphone analogue output. If that is good
enough for you, and the sound is very good, you're there as soon as they
appear in the shops.

[image:
http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nexus7dock-650x487-e1343743557559.jpg?w=300&h=200&crop=1]

http://gigaom.com/mobile/official-nexus-7-dock-appears-then-plays-hide-and-seek/

The only option for a digital output seems to be the micro USB socket
which would be on the left side as the Nexus sits in the dock.

Reading around it seems such an output could be configured using a USB
OTG cable, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know the detail.


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Gadgety1
2012-09-06 00:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Labarum wrote:
> The big issue is getting the bitstream unmangled to the DAC.
>
> I am hoping that is will soon be possible to get a quality bitream from
> the micro USB on the Nexus 7. That Tablet in a landscape dock could
> rival a touch for looks and features.
>
> [image:
> http://img.actualidadgadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/google-nexus-7-dock.jpg]

I've spent the day researching alternatives. I even started looking into
other software alternatives (shame on me), such as XBMC's Audio Engine,
already running on the RPi. I also thought of using a tablet or a phone,
since most people have them anyway. To get the digital audio out there's
a new standard called MHL (brought to the world by Nokia, Samsung and a
few other small companies) which uses the micro USB port to bring out
HDMI and SPDIF digital audio out either through cables, docks etc.
Unfortunately the Nexus 7 does not have MHL. But a chinese phone
manufacturer, such as Meizu MX, does. These devices are quite powerful.
Still the Raspberry Pi looks tempting. It'll probably handle 24/96 as
well (it does with XMBC afaik). Thanks to TRuehl for bringing this up.


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Wirrunna
2012-09-06 05:44:31 UTC
Permalink
The Nexus 7 Tablet in a dock certainly looks good.
There are a few Android mini PCs appearing -
http://liliputing.com/2012/08/this-is-what-those-new-rk3066-android-4-0-mini-pcs-look-like.html
- I suspect that at least one of these will be able to output digital
sound and/or good analog.

A DIY "SqueezeBox Controller" using the Nexus 7 with Orange Squeeze or
Squeeze Commander and SqueezePlayer on the Android mini PC is on the
horizon.


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Atlantic
2012-09-07 09:21:45 UTC
Permalink
Gadgety1 wrote:
> I've spent the day researching alternatives. [..] I also thought of
> using a tablet or a phone, since most people have them anyway. To get
> the digital audio out there's a new standard called MHL- Mobile High
> Definition Link (brought to the world by Nokia, Samsung and a few other
> small companies) which uses the micro USB port to bring out HDMI and
> SPDIF digital audio out either through cables, docks etc.
>
>

I've been looking at this aspect. I'd like to use an Android mobile in
some manner similar to Pippin's suggestions for i-Things, and excluding
headphone-out sources. Converting from the MHL lead to HDMI isn't
difficult. At least 2 solutions:

(i) Samsung/Others: standard MHL -> HDMI lead;

(I'm note sure how to get an HDMI signal into either (a) our analogue
in/out traditional HiFi system, or (b) an external DAC. Apart from
anything else, as I understand it, HDMI audio output 'depends' on what
the receiving HDMI device claims that 'it' is, and what audio
transmission scheme 'it' requires.)

(ii) Hacked MHL/USB lead as here:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1395173&page=2&styleid=16

But, presumably, the audio signals shown in the sketch are still
digital-something, at this point. Not sure what, though.

regards, Atlantic


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psketch
2012-09-04 21:33:53 UTC
Permalink
"Squeezemenicely wrote:
>
>
> Yes a raspberrry Pi would make a pretty good SB alternative, but as you
> wrote - there is no good analogue or SPDIF out - yet.
> Also from what I understand streaming services like Spotify would not
> work on the Pi, not even via the Spotify premium addon.
>
> But, maybe ther is a plugplayer out there that has the connections and
> Squeezeplug could also be transferred to that.
>
> At the moment the only fullfunctional alternative I see is an iPod
> running iPeng on a dock with SPDIF out. Adding the cost of the hardware
> it would still be cheaper than a Touch.
>
> But hopefully soon there will be more alternatives.

Well, you're right that there's no spoof out, but there's nothing to
stop you using a USB dac with the Pi. I've tried it with an old
creative sound blaster 24 external when I was having hdmi problems, and
it was fine. A quick search found a USB dac for £7 tonight
http://www.amazon.co.uk/External-Sound-Card-Channel-Audio/dp/B003TO3KHY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_2

No idea if it has Alsa drivers of course, and USB will limit your Rez,
but still a very cheap solution. Or, just connect directly to a
processor via hdmi, which also works fine.

Mines been running a week or so now with squeezeslave without a hiccup.

Of course, as you say, no premium services, but for the money for local
music, URL radio and triode's plugins, it's a great, cheap solution in
my view.


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the nightfly
2012-09-05 00:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Squeezemenicely wrote:
> At the moment the only fullfunctional alternative I see is an iPod
> running iPeng on a dock with SPDIF out. Adding the cost of the hardware
> it would still be cheaper than a Touch.

That's pretty much the way I see it as well. For the time being, I'm
going to continue with my SB Touch as if nothing had changed (and may
even pick up one or two more as backup), but, if all of my SB hardware
died tomorrow and I couldn't find replacements, I'd just keep using SBS
on my NAS, streaming to iPeng on my iPhone in a dock with a digital out
to my receiver. Not quite as convenient as the Touch, but it would still
do all I might want. It would be an irony indeed if SlimDevices designed
the Squeezebox as a system that would even outlive itself.


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jimbobvfr400
2012-09-06 15:14:10 UTC
Permalink
simbo wrote:
> It's a shame the O2 Jogglers ('OpenFrame7'
> (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?64373-OpenFrame-remote-for-SB))
> are so hard to come by nowadays.
>
> I have one, 'running SqueezePlay'
> (http://birdslikewires.co.uk/articles/squeezeplay-os). The only downside
> is the poor quality internal sound (with headphone socket) but I believe
> some people have attached audio dongles instead. In effect it's a Touch
> with a 7-inch screen (and a crappy sound chip).

I'm currently using 3 of them as players, one of them is also running
LMS serving my music stored on a NAS. I've soldered a S-PDIF optical
socket directly to the motherboard therfore bypassing the internal sound
chip. Excellent little gadgets.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2


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