Discussion:
Replacement system recommendations
gb115b
2014-09-10 13:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi, my squeezeboxen seem to be suffering from hardware issues now, and
with Logitech pulling the rug out on us, I was wondering what people
recommend for replacements. is it time to move to a new system?

I need something with support for:
FLAC
Multiple Artists in Tags (so that rules out Sonos?).
Gapless Output.
Multiple synched player support.
also ideally 24-bit / 96Khz or 192 kHz support.


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johnas
2014-09-10 14:32:03 UTC
Permalink
I would try and trouble shoot your hardware issues first before pulling
the plug. If you post details on your problems users here will do their
best to help you.

Also, if you are happy with LMS and the Squeezebox eco system there are
lots of options for building your own players (PiCoreplayer on RPi,
Squeeze on Arch etc).
Post by gb115b
Hi, my squeezeboxen seem to be suffering from hardware issues now, and
with Logitech pulling the rug out on us, I was wondering what people
recommend for replacements. is it time to move to a new system?
FLAC
Multiple Artists in Tags (so that rules out Sonos?).
Gapless Output.
Multiple synched player support.
also ideally 24-bit / 96Khz or 192 kHz support.
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gb115b
2014-09-10 15:14:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by johnas
I would try and trouble shoot your hardware issues first before pulling
the plug. If you post details on your problems users here will do their
best to help you.
Also, if you are happy with LMS and the Squeezebox eco system there are
lots of options for building your own players (PiCoreplayer on RPi,
Squeeze on Arch etc).
I'm assuming it's just down to failing hardware, but basically my
Squeezebox 3 becomes unresponsive shortly after beginning playback,
first it goes into 'buffering' state, but it doesn't seem to recover and
doesn't respond to the remote, requiring me to power off and on again.
- note this all used to work fine, and my Boom and Radio still chug
along nicely in the other rooms.

is anyone selling prepackaged players like that... I don't really have
the time for tinkering that I used to, and kind of just want a system
that works! as for rolling your own are there any recommended configs
(or are they all pretty similar?). I saw something called squeezeplug
which sounded like it could be good. I guess my big worry on these ones
is the multi-room synching aspect.


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castalla
2014-09-10 15:59:43 UTC
Permalink
I saw something called squeezeplug which sounded like it could be
good. I guess my big worry on these ones is the multi-room synching
aspect.
Squeezeplug is the name for a modified version of debian with install
scripts for LMS and players - it runs on Raspi or Odroid devices. The
player is squeezelite - you'd probably need a usb audio dongle or dac
plus speakers. Should sync okay.



Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers
Logitech Radio
Logitech UE Smart Radio
Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite - Logitech Mini Boombox
speaker (mothballed)
Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100
bluetooth speaker
O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers
IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Logitech Mini Boombox
speaker - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker
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johnas
2014-09-10 16:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Hi, are you running the player wireless and if so have you looked into
the wireless signal where the player is located. The lms information
page lists the signal strength.

Check the power supply, make sure it is seated and not causing a
problem if you jiggle it.

The SB3 WiFi cards becoming unseated is also a problem some have
reported (even if running wired). Reseat the card or last resort remove
it.

Hopefully others will provide additional guidance, report back if you
figure out!

Squeezeplug requires very little configuration when running on supported
hardware, squeezelite. ( the player plugin) has good sync.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk




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Grumpy Bob
2014-09-10 18:30:47 UTC
Permalink
I know the OP said they had limited time available for tinkering, but
I've got a couple of Raspberry Pi running piCorePlayer, which uses
Squeezelite, and has a web UI for admin and setup tasks. I'm using one
with a HiFiBerry DAC, the other with a USB Headphone DAC. They really
didn't take very long to setup and perform pretty well in my opinion.

Robert



Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar
3 and Naim CD3)
2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3
SqueezePad, iPeng, Squeezeplay, piCorePlayer/HiFiBerry,
piCorePlayer>DacMagic XS
QNAP TS-239, LMS 7.8
last.fm/user/GrumpyBob
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get.amped
2014-09-10 18:48:55 UTC
Permalink
If the Boom and Radio are fine, fully functional SB3s are routinely
available on e-bay for under $150 USD. I recently picked up 3 for $125
each for some friends who were envious of my system.



Win7Pro(x64)[3.3Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD system, 15TB storage], LMS
7.9.0 -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic ->
NAD C160 -> 2 x NAD C272 -> Quad 22L2
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cparker
2014-09-11 11:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by get.amped
If the Boom and Radio are fine, fully functional SB3s are routinely
available on e-bay for under $150 USD. I recently picked up 3 for $125
each for some friends who were envious of my system.
Also search on LastFM player on ebay, I picked up a cheap fully working
Duet pair this way, the seller had no idea what they were actually
selling, it was still running the original firmware! Ouch :)



www.spicefly.com - ** Spicefly SugarCube ** - A hassle free acoustic
journey through your music library using MusicIP. Plus the finest
MusicIP installation guides, enhanced MIP Interface and SpyGlass MIP the
Windows Automated MusicIP Headless Installer.
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gb115b
2014-09-11 14:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by cparker
Also search on LastFM player on ebay, I picked up a cheap fully working
Duet pair this way, the seller had no idea what they were actually
selling, it was still running the original firmware! Ouch :)
wow, thanks! not many squeezebox 3s on the uk ebay site sadly... and i
wonder if i'm just putting off the inevitable (given that hardware and
software are no longer readily available, maybe it's time to call it
quits?). it's a real shame what logitech did to slimdevices.


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atrocity
2014-09-11 14:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by gb115b
wow, thanks! not many squeezebox 3s on the uk ebay site sadly... and i
wonder if i'm just putting off the inevitable (given that hardware and
software are no longer readily available, maybe it's time to call it
quits?). it's a real shame what logitech did to slimdevices.
The software is under active development. Logitech-manufactured
hardware is out of production, but there's no shortage of low-cost
alternatives that work great with LMS.


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cliveb
2014-09-11 16:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by atrocity
The software is under active development. Logitech-manufactured
hardware is out of production, but there's no shortage of low-cost
alternatives that work great with LMS.
Quite so. And in the context of running an LMS-based system, the
hardware is a secondary consideration: you will always be able to
build/acquire suitable hardware.

If you jump ship to another system, however, where are you going to go?
If you want to ensure you'll always be able to get hardware that fits
in, you're basically condemning yourself to living with the hell that is
DLNA.

To avoid that, I suppose you can switch to Sonos. But now you really
*are* locking yourself into one vendor's hardware.

For a useable multi-room streaming system, LMS remains a very sensible
choice.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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atrocity
2014-09-11 17:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
For a useable multi-room streaming system, LMS remains a very sensible
choice.
And as much as we all like to scratch our heads and wonder what Logitech
was thinking, I'm very grateful to them and to SlimDevices for getting
us to this point.

Given how much interest there still is in the system and how many of us
have concluded that there's still nothing better, it seems like it would
be pretty easy for Logitech to get back into the game if they ever
wanted to.

For some reason, this makes me think of Fiesta, a popular American line
of dinnerware that was pulled from production by its manufacturer.
After a few years of watching prices for used pieces skyrocket, they
realized they were missing out and began making the stuff again. Of
course, the salad plates didn't do such a great job of decoding FLAC...


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yxz11
2014-09-11 19:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Get an Android box, see

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102125-Android-Media-Player-as-squeezebox-replacement


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GeeJay
2014-09-12 02:12:23 UTC
Permalink
I am actively watching for a true replacement for SB. There are some
interesting designs, but the software is so rudimentary, or the devices
don't sync, that it amazes me a commercial venture doesn't simply come
out with an LMS compatible device. Hell, even highly-touted "audiophile
quality" devices that cost thousands of dollars can't do what I want
them to do.

I'll bide my time, and if one of my SBs break down I'll either buy a
used one on eBay (at a premium over what I paid, but still cheaper than
inferior alternatives), or figure out how to build one myself.



2-SB3s, 1-Duet, 1-Touch...and an iPeng convert.
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Mnyb
2014-09-12 17:11:53 UTC
Permalink
.... And some wifi problems does not usually means that the device is
broken . OP migth be trying to solve the wrong problem ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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paulster
2014-09-13 05:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by GeeJay
I am actively watching for a true replacement for SB. There are some
interesting designs, but the software is so rudimentary, or the devices
don't sync, that it amazes me a commercial venture doesn't simply come
out with an LMS compatible device. Hell, even highly-touted "audiophile
quality" devices that cost thousands of dollars can't do what I want
them to do.
I have a load of Logitech SB hardware, but I've taken it all out of
service now. All of my Squeezelite-powered units sync perfectly, play
high-res audio, and do everything and more than the Logitech hardware
that preceded them did.



Two track 1's and no track 2 after a scan for new and changed? Please
vote for serious scanning bug '17782'
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17782)
Receiver stuck at blue LED state after reboot? Please vote for bug
'17462' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17462)
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atrocity
2014-09-13 22:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulster
I have a load of Logitech SB hardware, but I've taken it all out of
service now. All of my Squeezelite-powered units sync perfectly, play
high-res audio, and do everything and more than the Logitech hardware
that preceded them did.
Only issue I've had with unofficial hardware is an inability to play the
pay streaming services, or at least Rhapsody. In my case, it's a minor
issue, but I could see it being a showstopper for others.


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paulster
2014-09-13 22:43:50 UTC
Permalink
I used to use MOG, and now I use Spotify, so I'm a paid streaming
service customer. I do know that Rhapsody is a problem, but there are
perfectly viable alternatives that work just fine.



Two track 1's and no track 2 after a scan for new and changed? Please
vote for serious scanning bug '17782'
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17782)
Receiver stuck at blue LED state after reboot? Please vote for bug
'17462' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17462)
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philippe_44
2014-09-15 04:21:19 UTC
Permalink
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1
Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at
the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3
and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with
LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway
between the 2 systems and, to my real surprise, the synchronization
between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really amazed as there
is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for hours. Of course, I
have to move to Sonos controller when I want to switch on/off the Sonos
speaker, but at the end, this is a really good setting - I still love my
SB system (still improving it :-))


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JonWill
2014-09-15 14:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1
Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at
the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3
and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with
LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway
between the 2 systems using the SB Touch and, to my real surprise, the
synchronization between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really
amazed as there is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for
hours. Of course, I have to move to Sonos controller when I want to
switch on/off the Sonos speakers, but at the end, this is a really good
setting - I still love my SB system (still improving it :-))
I'd be interested i understanding how this works - do you point the
Sonos system to LMS for its music library? And how does syncing work,
other than by trying to rpess play at the same time :) If I could move
slowly over to a mixed economy that would be ideal ...



Main system: SB Touch, Arcam A85, Tannoy V4i speakers
SB Classic into JVC R-1XL Stereo Receiver and JPW bookshelf speakers (an
Ebay/ Freecycle set up!)
SB Boom, Logitech Z4 subwoofer
SB Radio
LMS 7.8.0 running on WHS 2011 on a HP Prolaint Microserver
Orange Squeeze/ Squeeze Commander on Google Nexus 7 and HTC One
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philippe_44
2014-09-16 02:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonWill
I'd be interested i understanding how this works - do you point the
Sonos system to LMS for its music library? And how does syncing work,
other than by trying to rpess play at the same time :) If I could move
slowly over to a mixed economy that would be ideal ...
It is at the same time more simple and less elegant :-)

Sonos cannot point to LMS, they ignore each other. What Sonos does well
is distributing analog source connected to the line-in of any capable
device (a play:5 or a connect) to any other device in the Sonos system
and keeping them fully in sync. So it is as simple as connecting the
line-out of a SB3 or a Touch or a Receiver to any Sonos device with
Line-In. Then _that_ Squeezebox device becomes your bridge. In other
words, you have to always play on that SB device to be able to listen to
your music on the Sonos system. The Sonos is, to some extend, just used
as wireless speakers with enhanced synchronization capabilities. What is
amazing is that when I tried that, I was expecting the Sonos system to
delay the analog input to a few 100ms and have to delay all my
Squeezebox devices to take that into account, I was expecting awfull
jitter at all - well, not at all (and I've been using that for almost 2
years). There is no audible delay between an analog input of a Sonos
system and that same music forwarded to any other sonos devices - this
is just instant "forward"

So, what is played on my Sonos "extensions" is fully controlled by my
Squeezebox system (I use iPeng a lot, it is really a great piece of
software). The only time when I use the Sonos controller is to mute /
unmute / group Sonos speakers as, again, all the Sonos speakers appears
as "one single entity" to the SB system. But that's all. Of course, at
any time, you can ask the Sonos system to play something else than the
line-in of (eg) a Play:5. The Sonos system is pointing to the same
folder containing my music, so everything is as well available
"natively"

Say you have

Kitchen : Boombox
Dinner room : SB3 on amplifier speakers
Bedroom : Radio

you add Sonos devices
Dinner room : Play:5
Bedroom : 2xSonos:1

Connect line-out of SB3 to the Play:5 line-in using a Y connector

To play on the Sonos(Dinner) or Sonos(Bedroom), the caveat is that you
have to play on SB(Kitchen). On Sonos, configure it to re-play
Sonos(Dinner:LineIn) to Sonos(Bedroom) and/or Sonos(Dinner). Using your
prefered SB controller, then do what you used to do, and all speakers in
Bedroom will play in perfect sync, although they are a combo of Sonos
and Squeezebox. If you want to switch off Sonos(Dinner) or
Sonos(Bedroom), use the Sonos application on your preferred smartphone.
You can also dedicated an "old" Squeezebox receiver to be the bridge
between the system, not connected to any speaker - in that case, no
annoyance of having mandatory sound to be heard in one room to bridge to
Sonos. I feel it is a very smooth transition or a very good combo


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JonWill
2014-09-16 07:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
It is at the same time more simple and less elegant :-)
Not quite as perfect as I had hoped - you need one additional player...
however much better than replacing my entire system with e.g. Sonoses in
one go - thanks very much for the explanation - food for thought!



Main system: SB Touch, Arcam A85, Tannoy V4i speakers
SB Classic into JVC R-1XL Stereo Receiver and JPW bookshelf speakers (an
Ebay/ Freecycle set up!)
SB Boom, Logitech Z4 subwoofer
SB Radio
LMS 7.8.0 running on WHS 2011 on a HP Prolaint Microserver
Orange Squeeze/ Squeeze Commander on Google Nexus 7 and HTC One
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philippe_44
2014-09-16 13:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JonWill
Not quite as perfect as I had hoped - you need one additional player...
however much better than replacing my entire system with e.g. Sonoses in
one go - thanks very much for the explanation - food for thought!
In fact, that makes me think that a better solution could be to re-use
things like squeezelite to create a stream that can be picked-up by
Sonos, this bridge being run by the computer running LMS ... hmmm let's
think about it. Would you like it better ? Anybody having an opinion.


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philippe_44
2014-09-16 19:06:10 UTC
Permalink
In fact, I was thinking that is I can get a multiple instance of
SqueezeLite, all feeding different streams connected to Sonos
controller, it might be an interesting solution. In other words

SqueezeLite:1 ==> Stream:1 ==> Sonos device:1
SqueezeLite:2 ==> Stream:2 ==> Sonos device:2
. . . . .
SqueezeLite:N ==> Stream:N ==> Sonos device:N

So, from LMS, each Sonos device would be a separated SqueezeLite entity,
so it would be independently controllable as far as volume and what is
played on to it. From Sonos controller, what is needed is to play a
different stream on each device. Synchronization is not likely to work,
but it can be achieved by connecting multiple Sonos devices to a single
stream

It might be a resource hog, I don't know but I'll try with one first to
see if it is possible to easily procude a stream (like a radio stream)
that Sonos would recognize and if it works, then I'll see how to hack
Squeezelite and a simple streamer. I realize it might not work at all,
but can be a fun result :-)

Thoughts ?


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bpa
2014-09-17 07:41:35 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
philippe_44
2014-09-17 13:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by bpa
Probably no need to hack squeezelite as it already does output to stdout
and has been used in other threads to pipe audio into other
applications. In this case possibly VLC but it does not support http
streaming Flac only streaming MP3 and possibly other lossy audio.
That's what I'm doing now for test. I started with FFmpeg to directly do
RTP but unfortunately Sonos does not support RTP. So I will either use
FFServer or VLC. But, for going beyond just the test that would proove
feasibility, I was more concerned about the CPU required by multiple
transcoding, i.e Squeezelite decoding then VLC re-coding, that x times
number of streams ... pretty inefficient, no ?


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Roland0
2014-09-17 13:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
That's what I'm doing now for test. I started with FFmpeg to directly do
RTP but unfortunately Sonos does not support RTP. So I will either use
FFServer or VLC. But, for going beyond just the test that would proove
feasibility, I was more concerned about the CPU required by multiple
transcoding, i.e Squeezelite decoding then VLC re-coding, that x times
number of streams ... pretty inefficient, no ?
If mp3 is acceptable, the simplest way would be to point the sonos
devices to http://lmsserver:9000/stream.mp3 (see 'here'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_streaming) for details)



[ extGUI4LMS - an alternative web interface: 'forum'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta))
/ 'homepage' (http://code.google.com/p/extgui4lms/) ]
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philippe_44
2014-09-17 16:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by bpa
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still
accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want
"proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security
If mp3 is acceptable, the simplest way would be to point the sonos
devices to http://lmsserver:9000/stream.mp3 (see 'here'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_streaming) for details)
Great ! I did not remember that LMS feature. Tried quickly and Sonos
recognizes the stream and LMS recognizes the Sonos client - I'll see how
sync works (i'not home currently so a bit difficult to listen to the
result) but if it works, then it might be more than good enough - Thanks
!


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philippe_44
2014-09-18 03:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
Great ! I did not remember that LMS feature. Tried quickly and Sonos
recognizes the stream and LMS recognizes the Sonos client - I'll see how
sync works (i'not home currently so a bit difficult to listen to the
result) but if it works, then it might be more than good enough - Thanks
!
Bummer ... Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS shows it as a device.
That's cool but that device cannot be synchronized. So that's a good
start, but the missing sync is making that a less interesting feature
than my hardware bridge


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philippe_44
2014-09-22 05:31:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
Bummer ... Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS shows it as a device.
That's cool but that device cannot be synchronized. So that's a good
start, but the missing sync is making that a less interesting feature
than my hardware bridge
[edit] : a Sonos client cannot be added to an existing stream, it can
only be the leader of the stream. But, 2 Sonos clients can be sync
together ... hmmm ... need to investigate why
Back home for some tests - this is unfortuately unusable. Sonos streams
properly from http://<my LMS>/stream.mp3 but the delay for start or stop
is like 30 seconds. Propably just the fact that this is heavily buffered
and the Sonos client just get the stream from LMS "as it is", LMS is
just a http audio server. Well I guess I will have at least to get back
to squeezelite and translate a few commands to Sonos as an uPnP client.
This will obviously be a long journey :-). I'v seen other threads where
people manage to have something similar, but not exactly that,
especially no sycn and lot of transcoding that I'd like to avoid. If I
cannot make it work with at minimum a sync between LMS and Sonos, then
I'd better stick to my current HW solution which provides perfect audio
synchro, just with that limitation that the whole Sonos system is seens
a single player by LMS


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cliveb
2014-09-17 07:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
In fact, I was thinking that is I can get a multiple instance of
SqueezeLite, all feeding different streams connected to Sonos
controller, it might be an interesting solution. In other words
SqueezeLite:1 ==> Stream:1 ==> Sonos device:1
SqueezeLite:2 ==> Stream:2 ==> Sonos device:2
. . . . .
SqueezeLite:N ==> Stream:N ==> Sonos device:N
So, from LMS, each Sonos device would be a separated SqueezeLite entity,
so it would be independently controllable as far as volume and what is
played on to it. From Sonos controller, what is needed is to play a
different stream on each device. Synchronization is not likely to work,
but it can be achieved by connecting multiple Sonos devices to a single
stream
Sorry, am I missing something here?

It seems to me what's being proposed is a way of using Sonos devices as
Squeezeboxes, and getting them properly integrated into LMS.

Why would anyone do that? Why would they use expensive Sonos devices to
emulate what can be built for a fraction of the cost using things like
RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?



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bpa
2014-09-17 09:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
Why would anyone do that? Why would they use expensive Sonos devices to
emulate what can be built for a fraction of the cost using things like
RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still
accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want
"proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security


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philippe_44
2014-09-17 13:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by bpa
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still
accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want
"proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security
Exactly - this is about transition. SOmetimes, you'll go native Sonos,
but not at the begining. I agree that if the objective is to keep LMS
for ever and for a guy that like tinkering, this is not an issue - but
most users don't want to do that


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dafiend
2014-09-17 15:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by bpa
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still
accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want
"proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security
It's not that with LMS, DIY is the only option left. You can employ
Android (or iOS) based devices. Getting the client running is as easy as
installing an app. It doesn't get much more user-friendly than that IMO.


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GeeJay
2014-09-17 21:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by bpa
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still
accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want
"proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security
I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out
of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't
understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I
can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.



2-SB3s, 1-Duet, 1-Touch. Mac Mini as a server. iPeng is my controller
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philippe_44
2014-09-18 03:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by GeeJay
I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out
of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't
understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I
can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.
a SB receiver ... and LMS (staying in that line - I guess we do not take
about Sonos here)


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cliveb
2014-09-18 13:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by GeeJay
I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out
of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't
understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I
can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.
If you just want to be able to buy a piece of hardware that will
integrate into your LMS system, pre-built RaspberryPi + HiFiBerry in a
case packages are starting to appear on eBay. Here's are two examples on
the UK eBay site:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DBM-Network-Audio-Player-Music-Streamer-DLNA-UPNP-HiFiBerry-Squeezebox-/281427452471?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item4186622237
and
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HifiBerry-DAC-Music-Streamer-/131292006075?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1e919d06bb
(Not cheap, but neither is Sonos).



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pablolie
2014-09-19 03:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
Sorry, am I missing something here?
".. using things like RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?
i still miss a good primer on this. there's always a reference it's
around somewhere, but is there an idiot's quide to building a community
squeezebox replacement somewhere? or can we buy a packaged one? i don't
want to compile, install and troubleshoot. i'd rather pay $200.



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine running Ubuntu 12.04 + LMS 7.7.3 on VMware
Player
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- Creek Destiny Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->-
KEF LS50
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> MusicalFidelity
M1PWR -> Totem DreamCatcher
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GeeJay
2014-09-20 17:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
If you just want to be able to buy a piece of hardware that will
integrate into your LMS system, pre-built RaspberryPi + HiFiBerry in a
case packages are starting to appear on eBay. Here's are two examples on
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DBM-Network-Audio-Player-Music-Streamer-DLNA-UPNP-HiFiBerry-Squeezebox-/281427452471?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item4186622237
and
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HifiBerry-DAC-Music-Streamer-/131292006075?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1e919d06bb
(Not cheap, but neither is Sonos).
Actually, that IS cheap compared to Sonos. $200-$250 USD is right where
I want to be, although I certainly wouldn't mind paying less when I can.
Thanks for posting those links.
Post by cliveb
i still miss a good primer on this. there's always a reference it's
around somewhere, but is there an idiot's quide to building a community
squeezebox replacement somewhere? or can we buy a packaged one? i don't
want to compile, install and troubleshoot. i'd rather pay $200.
Amen. Almost all the commercial boxes I see are well above that.



2-SB3s, 1-Duet, 1-Touch. Mac Mini as a server. iPeng is my controller
of choice.
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wortgefecht
2014-09-20 18:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablolie
i'd rather pay $200.
Not sure, whether this device already came up here:
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM1.html

The SOtM sMS-100. Even though it's called a 'mini server', it's actually
an audiophile Squeezebox compatible box: "SOtM sMS-100 is a network
player which supports SqueezeLite (i.e. LMS), AirPlay, DLNA/MPD, and
HQPlayer NAA function."

The korean manufacturer delivers also a matching USB DAC/headphone amp
and an external power supply as well as a rack for all three:
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/products/advanced/

It's a bit more expensive than $200, it's more on the $500 side.

Oh, and then there is this nice device here:
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-1000/ It's a
CD/DVD ripping station slash LMS (DLNA, SMB, NFS) server with a 2 gb
hdd.



- *ASRock Ion 330* with Lubuntu 14.04 LTS running LMS 7.8.1 as
music/video server
- *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), Archos 35 Home
Connect + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom)
- *Duet* (living room) -> Parasound DAC 1500 -> vintage Wega Modul 42V
amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II
turntable) -> Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers
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Julf
2014-09-20 19:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by wortgefecht
Not sure, whether this device already came up here
Yes, the SOtM has been discussed every now and then. Mostly with people
questioning the high price compared to something like the Raspberry PI,
but I guess the Sonore people have to recoup the cost of paid product
placement on sites like Computer Audiophile.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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cliveb
2014-09-21 06:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by wortgefecht
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-1000/ It's a
CD/DVD ripping station slash LMS (DLNA, SMB, NFS) server with a 2 gb
hdd.
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about £300



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wortgefecht
2014-09-21 11:54:07 UTC
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Post by cliveb
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about £300
Thank you for introducing me to Vortexbox :) Unfortunately, I haven't
heard of that until now ... Looks like what I need, LMS, Squeezelite and
Google Play Music plugin! Some years ago I picked up a used Reson rh1 (a
modified Hifidelio Pro) for a few bucks, but since it only came with a
80 gb hdd AND was pre-filled by the previous owner who forgot (!) to
wipe his collection from it, I only toyed around with it for a while.
Now it's collecting dust.

The Reson rh1:
16418
http://www.justhifi.de/Reson_rh1_a3131.html

Does anyone here have any experience with a dedicated Vortexbox 2.3 box,
preferably home built?


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
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|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16418|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+


- *ASRock Ion 330* with Lubuntu 14.04 LTS running LMS 7.8.1 as
music/video server
- *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), Archos 35 Home
Connect + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom)
- *Duet* (living room) -> Parasound DAC 1500 -> vintage Wega Modul 42V
amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II
turntable) -> Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers
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mcdudeabides
2014-09-21 14:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by wortgefecht
Does anyone here have any experience with a dedicated Vortexbox 2.3 box,
preferably home built?
I've bought a couple from Small Green Computer (Andrew, the founder of
Vortexbox, store front) and built several for family and friends. I
think it is one of the best Linux platforms for a LMS based media
platform. Keep in mind that it goes beyond just trying to host LMS and
provides a number of other services (CD ripping, metadata via BLISS,
FLAC->MP3 sync, etc.) as well. The community also is constantly
extending the platform and you can find a number of useful
utilities/add-ons. If the Vortexbox interests you, then you might want
to drop in on their forum directly. The community is very helpful and
Ron Olsen is an omnipresent guru that helps with all matter of things
(very helpful for giving non-Linux users context and perspective for
some of the internals).

http://vortexbox.org/forum
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/


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garym
2014-09-21 14:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by mcdudeabides
I've bought a couple from Small Green Computer (Andrew, the founder of
Vortexbox, store front) and built several for family and friends. I
think it is one of the best Linux platforms for a LMS based media
platform. Keep in mind that it goes beyond just trying to host LMS and
provides a number of other services (CD ripping, metadata via BLISS,
FLAC->MP3 sync, etc.) as well. The community also is constantly
extending the platform and you can find a number of useful
utilities/add-ons. If the Vortexbox interests you, then you might want
to drop in on their forum directly. The community is very helpful and
Ron Olsen is an omnipresent guru that helps with all matter of things
(very helpful for giving non-Linux users context and perspective for
some of the internals).
http://vortexbox.org/forum
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/
agree. I have 3 Vortexboxes (purchased from Small Green Computer, but
since updated to the latest VB 2.3 OS). One can use these simply as
servers for hardware SBs or use the included "squeezelite" players to
have one or more software SB players residing within the VB and feeding
analog (or more likely, USB > DAC) outputs for different locations. All
using LMS and controllable with the same things (webGUI, iPeng, etc.).



*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* several Touch, Radio, SB3
*Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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wortgefecht
2014-09-21 15:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the links! I checked several suppliers of ready-made
VortexBox boxes and as far as I can see, they all use standard parts and
cases, some even have very detailed lists of components. So I should be
able to build my own in order to replace my ASRock Ion 330 working as a
server and the Duet connected to my amp :) I'll check out the VortexBox
forum as well.



- *ASRock Ion 330* with Lubuntu 14.04 LTS running LMS 7.8.1 as
music/video server
- *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), Archos 35 Home
Connect + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom)
- *Duet* (living room) -> Parasound DAC 1500 -> vintage Wega Modul 42V
amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II
turntable) -> Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers
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Julf
2014-09-21 12:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
And they want $2.5k for this?
Well, at least it isn't as bad as the $6,500 you have to pay for the
same stuff in a 'McIntosh box'
(http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/categorylanding.aspx?CatId=MediaStreamers).



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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agillis
2014-09-22 16:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliveb
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about £300
I helped them build this unit and i'll give you the info on what makes
it better then a stock VortexBox that I sell

- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how
beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the
border. Very "Apple like"
- Custom low noise power supply
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in
the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies
etc.
- Extensive dealer network. You can go a listen to this box before
buying it. Remember as will all high end audio dealers take a cut to
demo an support a product.
- Marketing, The above poster is correct. I'm sure they spend money (as
most companies do) on promoting their products.

Does all this make it worth the extra cost? The customers that have
purchased one from me tell me yes. They tell me the get the best sound
out of their high end DACs with the SOtM. The customers that purchase
this unit has all spent over $1000 just on their DAC and are using it to
feed a high end system.

There are may different VortexBox appliance units at different price
ranges. It depends on what your looking for.



rip, tag, get cover art… All you do is insert the CD!
http://vortexbox.org

agillis
Lead Developer VortexBox
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Julf
2014-09-22 16:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by agillis
- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how
beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the
border. Very "Apple like"
Yes, good looking - but I guess no effect on sound quality.
Post by agillis
- Custom low noise power supply
How much audible difference does it make?
Post by agillis
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in
the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.
What makes one USB card "better" than another?
Post by agillis
- Extensive dealer network. You can go a listen to this box before
buying it. Remember as will all high end audio dealers take a cut to
demo an support a product.
- Marketing, The above poster is correct. I'm sure they spend money (as
most companies do) on promoting their products.
Indeed.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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cliveb
2014-09-22 16:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by agillis
- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how
beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the
border. Very "Apple like"
I agree that it does look very nice.
(I hate to say this, but IMHO the one thing that slightly spoils its
appearance is the Vortexbox logo on the front !)
Post by agillis
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in
the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.
I thought the point about modern asynchronous USB DACs is that they are
unaffected by the quality of the USB host (within reason).



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dafiend
2014-09-22 17:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by agillis
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in
the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies
etc.
Either you know this is snake oil (but elect to promote it nevertheless)
or you are just incompetent as a developer.


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wortgefecht
2014-09-22 22:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by agillis
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in
the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.
There is a German retailer selling VortexBox "audiophile" devices for
€2K that come with - according to the seller - either a ESI Juli@ XTe (I
have this one in my custom built desktop PC) or a "SOtM tX-USB exp PCIe
USB 3.0". Is this the one used in the SOtM boxes and what makes it so
special?

My ESI Juli@ came together with Cubase LE from Steinberg and Steinberg
claims, that this PCIe card is "the best the market has to offer".



- *ASRock Ion 330* with Lubuntu 14.04 LTS running LMS 7.8.1 as
music/video server
- *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), Archos 35 Home
Connect + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom)
- *Duet* (living room) -> Parasound DAC 1500 -> vintage Wega Modul 42V
amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II
turntable) -> Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers
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Julf
2014-09-23 14:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Steinberg claims, that this PCIe card is "the best the market has to
offer".
Don't they all? :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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wortgefecht
2014-09-23 15:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julf
Don't they all? :)
Sure they do ;) That's why I asked about the SOtM card!

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk



- *ASRock Ion 330* with Lubuntu 14.04 LTS running LMS 7.8.1 as
music/video server
- *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), Archos 35 Home
Connect + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom)
- *Duet* (living room) -> Parasound DAC 1500 -> vintage Wega Modul 42V
amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II
turntable) -> Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers
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GeeJay
2014-09-16 02:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by philippe_44
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1
Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at
the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3
and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with
LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway
between the 2 systems using the SB Touch and, to my real surprise, the
synchronization between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really
amazed as there is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for
hours. Of course, I have to move to Sonos controller when I want to
switch on/off the Sonos speakers, but at the end, this is a really good
setting - I still love my SB system (still improving it :-))
This is interesting. So LMS controls the Sonos units (outside of power
on/off)? Are all the LMS plug-ins available?



2-SB3s, 1-Duet, 1-Touch. Mac Mini as a server. iPeng is my controller
of choice.
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atrocity
2014-09-15 14:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by paulster
I used to use MOG, and now I use Spotify, so I'm a paid streaming
service customer. I do know that Rhapsody is a problem, but there are
perfectly viable alternatives that work just fine.
That's very good to know, thank you!


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