> Sorry, I don't see the relevance of this.
> I used to own an audiotron. Voyetra, the people who made the audiotron,
> ran a forum for enthusiasts. Here you go, here's some disk space and a
> forum to talk amongst yourselfs. It was very clear, as it is very clear
> here, that this is not the official support channel.
> Some Slim people, the wrong people, as I pointed out, not the support
> staff, read the forums.
> It's still fundamentally the wrong place to find support.
not the point mike... (just to be clear btw, my last post was directed
at the swiss located guy) but since you responded, i'll respond to you.
anyway, u said yourself he wasn't asking for help. he is free to come
here as far as i'm concerned, and say what he said, and i don't see why
anyone would be upset by what he said. thin skins.
besides which, it doesn't matter WHO hosts the site as far as i'm
concerned, he made a public comment for public consumption. had it
been said on a forum 100% free of official slim involvement, or had it
been (as it was) said on a site 100% OWNED AND OPERATED by slim, it
doesn't matter. i wasn't the one saying it mattered, i was addressing
those who said it did. as if "enthusiast site" means "no complainst
allowed." and they tried to back up that ridiculous assertion by
saying it wasn't slims site, which is patently false. it is not the
official support channel, but so what?
> He also provided a diagnosis, and a slur. As I will explain later, his
> diagnosis was incorrect and his slur uncalled for.
the slur was mild and again, people around here need a thicker skin.
as to his diagnosis, surely you believe he had an issue, do you not?
i've had teh smae thing, and we're not alone.
> I see. So the OP, by virtue of being OP, is allowed to say anything, and
> the people in this forum, who have helped hundreds, perhaps thousands of
> friendly people here, are not allowed to object to trolls?
so b/c the guy says something you don't like, he's a troll?
do you not see the myopic POV you have? to say you're judgmental is
putting it lightly.
> How come he's allowed to say anything he wants and we aren't? How come
> KDF doesn't get the same freedom to say what's on his mind as the OP
> did? Doesn't this seem just a teeny tiny bit hypocritical to you?
OF COURSE you are free to say anything in response, and clearly many of
you have... and all i am saying is you guys went overboard, over a
NOTHING small little thing, which if it were the only time, i wouldn't
care, but it happens a lot... no one may dare blaspheme in the high
temple! come on.
> Yes. But you've got the wrong fine point, and you're not yet with the
> Slimserver is available for download before you buy. You can try it all
> out, all of it, including a Squeezebox emulator, before you buy. If you
> don't like the scan time, if you find it all that onerous (15 minutes
> on my system is not onerous, but the OP had a different experience),
> you could make that choice and not buy. It's the ultimate kick the
> tires before you buy policy.
> After that, there's a 30 day money back no questions asked policy.
> After that, in fact, Slim has been very generous whenever I've had a
> problem, in a number of cases long after the 30 days were up.
so let me get this straight, b/c i want to hear you say this:
my options are either:
1. love it all and shut the hell up
2. return it regardless of what the problem is, however large or small
b/c thats what your thesis leads to.
personally, i think if i buy a car, and something is wrong with it, its
ok to want the dealer to fix the problem, instead of totally returning
the car. but hey, thats just me.
> After that, the experience of the OP was atypical. Vastly atypical, as
> my several postings about performance pointed out. So we asked him to
> see what was different about his system, to post logs, so we could
> figure it out. I have some experience poking around in the scanning
> section, and so do quite a few others here, so we might have been able
> to steer him in the right direction towards a solution.
i've said it b4 mike, i respect you guys and what you do, its kind that
you bother. but there is definitely a "fan boy" quality in here that is
way too sensitive over the SMALLEST things.
> I never said the complaint should be ignored. Neiter, as I recall, did
> KDF. In fact, KDF asked 3 times to see the logs. If we can't see the
> diagnostic information, the complaint pretty much HAS to be ignored,
> because there's no information to go on.
at this point i was speaking more generally, there definitely is this
notion in here that complaints aren't welcome, period. in other words,
just b/c the software is free, doesn't mean no one should ever lodge a
> My point exactly. Where in the whole wide world can you find someone who
> can fix software by telepathy? Just whine at me for a while, insult me
> and call me an intern, and from the sound of your voice I can tell you
> that you entered the wrong directory name for the music folder.
> It ain't gonna happen.
once again, as you said, he wasn't asking for help.
and btw, he wasn't calling anyone but whoever was responsible at slim
an intern, and thats probably the most tame "insult" (a word to big for
what it was) i can think of.
> Now, about the scanning.
> My background is in performance measurement and analysis. Something
> like 6 to 9 months ago, I did some measurements of the scanning code.
> Dan had done some different measurements, from a different perspective
> (I think he did his first, but I didn't find out about them until I
> produced my results). I had also written some code, in a different
> language, but still an interpreted one, to do much the same job. My
> code was more than half an order of magnitude faster.
> So I measured the scanning code. The part of the scanner that reads the
> MP3s (I only looked at the MP3 case) is only about 20% of the work. The
> rest of the time is taken up in the database code.
> The database is another open source package, written by some other
> people. It's a simple minded database package, easy to use, but
> confined to a single user at a time, and it doesn't scale well to
> larger datasets.
> So it's not really Slims code that is taking the time. At least for
> 6.2, the bottleneck is the database.
> So the major improvements being worked on and prepared for 6.5 this
> fall are:
> to move to a separate thread for scanning, so that long scan delays
> won't effect music quality or cause interruptions,
> to move to a more sophisticated database that doesn't die when
> presented with large amounts of data.
> Also, the scanning thread becomes, to the database, a separate user, so
> it had to be a multi-user database.
> Despite all that, 8,000 to 10,000 tracks should take about 15 minutes
> on modern hardware. The fact that it took an order of magnitude longer
> means that something else was going very badly wrong. I would have
> wanted to see the scan and store timestamps, to see where the time was
> going, and then to see if either the database was somehow accidentally
> detuned, or if there was some problem with the file structure of the
> music folder.
much respect for what you know and do. as i've said b4, i'm waiting
for 6.5 to see how it is, b4 the press the subject further.
> But the OP said, essentially, he wasn't asking for help.
> So what was he hoping for, other than upsetting people?
if i had to guess, he was hoping slim would see it, since this site is
part of the official slim website. he was probably also hoping for
some empathy, and as we know, that was in vain.
the point to me is, he didn't do anything wrong, from my perspective,
certainly nothing that he deserved ganged up for, and certainly nothing
that he should see a shrink for... (which i know you totally agree with
again, i have no beef with you, but you can't sell a car, say the
engine is free, and then roll your eyes, wave your hands up in the air,
and say "no mas" if the customer comes back with an engine problem.
(complaint or support) jmho mike, -mdw
Squeezebox2 w/SS 6.3.1 - Win XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram
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