Discussion:
[slim] Giving up and sending it back
John Hunt
2004-07-10 11:48:12 UTC
Permalink
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my computer
grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box I've decided
it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the time to strip
windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical devices nearby or
whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim server talk to each
other for more than a few songs.



I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely. Sorry,
it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to restart it, it
hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with two copies of
slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3 impervious to
CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the computer won't even
shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.



I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play device
and it's still not working.
Dan Sully
2004-07-10 14:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my computer
grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box I've decided
it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the time to strip
windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical devices nearby or
whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim server talk to each
other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely. Sorry,
it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to restart it, it
hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with two copies of
slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3 impervious to
CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the computer won't even
shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
Did you try calling support at all? The odds would indicate that it's still a
problem with your computer and not with the product.

-D
--
On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
martin@ntl
2004-07-10 20:11:08 UTC
Permalink
I am in the same position. I'm half way through writing a detailed description to sent to the support people for Monday in case they can help. On a new clean installation of Windows XP, Slimserver is crashing Windows XP repeatedly, every hour or so, sometimes when it's nto even playing, and on a music filder containing only 30 songs. I wouldn't mind if I could close it in task manager. It's years since I used a program that was so bad that it crashed several times a day, and forced me to reboot the entire PC.

Several other people have posted problems with crashes in XP.... I think there must be a problem to be fixed here. I assume it's been tested with XP!

I've been monitoring slimserver for an hour now. IT was ok for an hour, with cpu usage at about 2%, and then cpu usgae started rising and slimserver is now using 98% CPU.. I expect it to crash again soon!

Martin

After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my computer
Post by John Hunt
grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box I've decided
it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the time to strip
windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical devices nearby or
whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim server talk to each
other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely. Sorry,
it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to restart it, it
hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with two copies of
slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3 impervious to
CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the computer won't even
shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
Ken Veasey
2004-07-10 22:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Its worth adding that since 5.2 I am experiencing the same thing
intermittently on XP. A power off/on off my PC is the only resolution
as it completely hangs.

Ken
Post by ***@ntl
I am in the same position. I'm half way through writing a detailed description to sent to the support people for Monday in case they can help. On a new clean installation of Windows XP, Slimserver is crashing Windows XP repeatedly, every hour or so, sometimes when it's nto even playing, and on a music filder containing only 30 songs. I wouldn't mind if I could close it in task manager. It's years since I used a program that was so bad that it crashed several times a day, and forced me to reboot the entire PC.
Several other people have posted problems with crashes in XP.... I think there must be a problem to be fixed here. I assume it's been tested with XP!
I've been monitoring slimserver for an hour now. IT was ok for an hour, with cpu usage at about 2%, and then cpu usgae started rising and slimserver is now using 98% CPU.. I expect it to crash again soon!
Martin
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my computer
Post by John Hunt
grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box I've decided
it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the time to strip
windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical devices nearby or
whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim server talk to each
other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely. Sorry,
it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to restart it, it
hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with two copies of
slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3 impervious to
CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the computer won't even
shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
Michel Fombellida
2004-07-11 07:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Weird... I am running the latest nightly on XP (SP1 and recently SP2 RC2) for
quite a while now and I've never seen XP crashing. The only problem I've seen
with the CPU is when running iTunes at the same time (the CPU goes high for a
few seconds and usually at that time the audio stream drops), I've increase the
time between db rescan and it seems better.

Michel
martin@ntl
2004-07-10 20:11:08 UTC
Permalink
I am in the same position. I'm half way through writing a detailed description to sent to the support people for Monday in case they can help. On a new clean installation of Windows XP, Slimserver is crashing Windows XP repeatedly, every hour or so, sometimes when it's nto even playing, and on a music filder containing only 30 songs. I wouldn't mind if I could close it in task manager. It's years since I used a program that was so bad that it crashed several times a day, and forced me to reboot the entire PC.

Several other people have posted problems with crashes in XP.... I think there must be a problem to be fixed here. I assume it's been tested with XP!

I've been monitoring slimserver for an hour now. IT was ok for an hour, with cpu usage at about 2%, and then cpu usgae started rising and slimserver is now using 98% CPU.. I expect it to crash again soon!

Martin

After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my computer
Post by John Hunt
grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box I've decided
it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the time to strip
windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical devices nearby or
whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim server talk to each
other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely. Sorry,
it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to restart it, it
hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with two copies of
slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3 impervious to
CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the computer won't even
shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
John Hunt
2004-07-11 09:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Oddly enough, after I sent the message, it ran perfectly for two or three
hours until I had to unplug the PC to take it back to the shop to get them
to replace a part they broke last time it was in (just the front panel LCD
temperature display so nothing that would affect the machine). I'd rebooted
my router and it seemed to work fine. I've left it running overnight playing
all the songs in the playlist and it seems fine so far, it's about 1/3 of
the way through and not grabbing more that 2-3% CPU.



I noticed sometimes after I reboot the router, Zonealarm detects a new
network and while SS was running, it hung the computer. Following on from an
email from tech support, I've been turning ZA off while using the slimserver
and it seemed to be fine, not sure if the reboot was what was missing and
these settings not being saved due to having to switch off. One other thing
I noticed was that I'd turned plugins back on between the working and not
working states and I'd saved one of the plugins incorrectly so that it was
an html file renamed as a .pm file. The server was complaining that it was
finding reserved words, so I turned off all the plugins, removed the duff
html and so far it's been great.



I'd just not had much sleep the night before sending me "it's going back
message" and the software crashing was just the last straw! My wife really
likes it and when its working, and I think it's fantastic, I'll persevere a
bit longer as I think the product concept is great and I'm sure the bug will
be sorted out if we all collate as much info as we can and send it to the
guys at Slim. Sorry for the earlier outburst - you just get these moments
from time to time and email is just too handy sometimes for venting
frustration! As for calling tech support, the 9 hour difference and
international phone calls make it a bit impractical but they have excellent
email support.



I changed the following out of interest:



Web interface: standard

Items per page: 100

Browser refresh: 30

Artwork: all blank except thumbnail size which is the default



Under performance: click wipe cache - leave well alone for 2-3 hours!

Look for artwork: do not look for art work

Build items per pass: 10



I've also turned off itunes and moodlogic support.



So far so good, no dropouts, no crashes and I left 4 DEC phones, 2 3g phones
and a 2G phone on 900MHz running with Bluetooth enabled and my TiVo also was
running with its 802.11b card and nothing seems to have affected the signal
so it definitely looks like it was a PC tweak which fixed it. Just wish I
knew exactly what!!
Jeffrey Gordon
2004-07-11 11:33:47 UTC
Permalink
First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I’ve decided it’s going back. It’s a great concept but I don’t have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I’ve only had one day where it didn’t crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won’t even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I’ve spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it’s still not working.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
martin@ntl
2004-07-11 12:04:00 UTC
Permalink
"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then I'd suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux server. I have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I don't have a spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy one. Maybe I will if I have the time.

As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me to turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another program that does that.

I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although crashes aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my mp3s are recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length, and time passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although they sound ok.


Martin
-----------------------------------


First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I've decided it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won't even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it's still not working.
Jack Coates
2004-07-11 15:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ntl
"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then
I'd suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux
server. I have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I
don't have a spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy
one. Maybe I will if I have the time.
I can agree with that -- I've been using Windows for work in the last few
months. It's my first serious exposure to Windows after about four years
of using Linux only, and it's been a hard learning experience; for me,
Windows is not the easier OS at all. Two different, largely incompatible
name resolution systems, a different little tool to do any useful
function, no meaningful command line, continual reboots, and most logging
is of the type "The description for Event ID (number) in Source (program)
cannot be found."

Anyone who tells you Windows is easy hasn't spent enough time to learn the
alternatives.
Post by ***@ntl
As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I
turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me
to turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another
program that does that.
Any modern OS can be coddled into stability with more or less effort; I
don't think much of XP, but 2000 with service packs and 2003 are
reasonable server platforms. The key is to administer it; whoever started
selling computers as "easy home appliances" has a lot to answer for.
Post by ***@ntl
I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength
dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I
use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed
with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although
crashes aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my
mp3s are recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length,
and time passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although
they sound ok.
I think you probably have some corrupted files or more likely, some
corrupt ID3 tags. I would do the following:

Disable all plugins, especially MoodLogic and iTunes.
Give Slimserver half your music folder; if it still crashes, cut that in
half. Continue until it's not crashing any more or you're left with a
single directory.
Play that directory with xmms or winamp and check its tags with easytag or
whatever tagger is used in Windows... MusicMatch? Make sure it has
capability for id3v2 and id3v1 tags, as Slimserver is looking at both.

I'd also enable debugging and tail the logfile while you're at it --
probably d_mp3 and d_parse? Someone else can explain how to tail a file on
Windows, I'd really like to know myself :)
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not
fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
Phillip Kerman
2004-07-11 15:59:16 UTC
Permalink
I think the point about Linux is more that it's difficult to make a change.
Personally, I don't really feel like installing system software of any kind:
mac, win, linux. I mean, it's a fair bit of time just getting everything
set up. At least for me, I like to leave the OS alone.

Thanks,
Phillip
andreas
2004-07-11 22:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Someone else can explain how to tail a file on Windows, I'd really like to know myself :)
OT: Google for tail.exe :)

/a
Denny Page
2004-07-11 19:27:25 UTC
Permalink
I run Linux and WinXP 24x7. Both are stable systems. While I would say that Linux has a slight edge on stability, WinXP is fine. I run Slimserver on WinXP.

Given that Slimserver runs as a normal process (no device driver hooks, etc.), it is very unlikely that the problem is Slimserver. Much more likely that you have a driver problem with your network card, or your security settings.

Try this experiment. If you have Slimserver installed as a system server, stop the service. Log in a normal user (one without Administrator privilege), and run Slimserver. If this actually crashes your system, then the problem is definitely not Slimserver, but the Windows system install itself.

Yes, you can stop using Slimserver, and this will make the crashes go away for now. But they will likely come back when some other usage pattern triggers the problem...

Make sure that your Windows system is current (Windows Update). Also make sure that you have the current driver for your network card. Note: Don't depend on Windows Update for your network card--go to the manufacturer's site directly.
Denny
John Hunt
2004-07-11 20:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Started slimserver by re-running install, stopped it in MMC, did windows-L
and logged on as non-admin, started slimserver and slim interface, went into
MMC, slimserver was not running, started it, it started then stopped "as it
may not have work to do", according to the dialog box.



Not sure what that tells me but the machine didn't crash.



I'm running Windows XP SP2 RC2 and updated my Nvidia drivers (the Asus
motherboard has an Nvidia card and integrated peripherals such as LAN)



John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



_____

From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Denny Page
Sent: 11 July 2004 20:27
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] Giving up and sending it back



I run Linux and WinXP 24x7. Both are stable systems. While I would say
that Linux has a slight edge on stability, WinXP is fine. I run Slimserver
on WinXP.



Given that Slimserver runs as a normal process (no device driver hooks,
etc.), it is very unlikely that the problem is Slimserver. Much more likely
that you have a driver problem with your network card, or your security
settings.



Try this experiment. If you have Slimserver installed as a system server,
stop the service. Log in a normal user (one without Administrator
privilege), and run Slimserver. If this actually crashes your system, then
the problem is definitely not Slimserver, but the Windows system install
itself.



Yes, you can stop using Slimserver, and this will make the crashes go away
for now. But they will likely come back when some other usage pattern
triggers the problem...



Make sure that your Windows system is current (Windows Update). Also make
sure that you have the current driver for your network card. Note: Don't
depend on Windows Update for your network card--go to the manufacturer's
site directly.

Denny
David Brittain
2004-07-11 21:01:52 UTC
Permalink
I’m running Windows XP SP2 RC2 and updated my Nvidia drivers (the Asus
motherboard has an Nvidia card and integrated peripherals such as LAN)
Is the embedded LAN the Broadcom Gigabit one? I have this on my Asus
board and gave up trying to use it with the slimserver (this was under
Linux not Windows). I took a NIC out of another machine and have had no
problems since.

Dave
John Hunt
2004-07-11 22:36:33 UTC
Permalink
It's the embedded nvidia one. I have a spare NIC two inches away from me
that can go in tomorrow night and I'll give that a try.

The board also has a 3 com NIC.

John M Hunt
www.johnmhunt.com
www.silveresk.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of David Brittain
Sent: 11 July 2004 22:02
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] Giving up and sending it back
Post by John Hunt
I'm running Windows XP SP2 RC2 and updated my Nvidia drivers (the Asus
motherboard has an Nvidia card and integrated peripherals such as LAN)
Is the embedded LAN the Broadcom Gigabit one? I have this on my Asus
board and gave up trying to use it with the slimserver (this was under
Linux not Windows). I took a NIC out of another machine and have had no
problems since.

Dave
John Hunt
2004-07-11 22:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Is this any use (from the event log from before I tried what you suggested).
5 errors a few minutes apart



Faulting application slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, faulting module
slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, fault address 0x0000879d.



Fault bucket 120739624.



Hanging application SlimServer.exe, version 5.3.0.1, hang module hungapp,
version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.



Hanging application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.2149, hang module
hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.



Faulting application slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, faulting module
slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, fault address 0x0000879d.



John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



_____

From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Denny Page
Sent: 11 July 2004 20:27
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] Giving up and sending it back



I run Linux and WinXP 24x7. Both are stable systems. While I would say
that Linux has a slight edge on stability, WinXP is fine. I run Slimserver
on WinXP.



Given that Slimserver runs as a normal process (no device driver hooks,
etc.), it is very unlikely that the problem is Slimserver. Much more likely
that you have a driver problem with your network card, or your security
settings.



Try this experiment. If you have Slimserver installed as a system server,
stop the service. Log in a normal user (one without Administrator
privilege), and run Slimserver. If this actually crashes your system, then
the problem is definitely not Slimserver, but the Windows system install
itself.



Yes, you can stop using Slimserver, and this will make the crashes go away
for now. But they will likely come back when some other usage pattern
triggers the problem...



Make sure that your Windows system is current (Windows Update). Also make
sure that you have the current driver for your network card. Note: Don't
depend on Windows Update for your network card--go to the manufacturer's
site directly.

Denny
Jack Coates
2004-07-12 01:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hunt
Is this any use (from the event log from before I tried what you suggested).
5 errors a few minutes apart
Faulting application slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, faulting module
slimserver.exe, version 5.3.0.1, fault address 0x0000879d.
Fault bucket 120739624.
Hanging application SlimServer.exe, version 5.3.0.1, hang module hungapp,
version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.
Hanging application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.2149, hang module
hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.
sure smells like network card driver to me.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not
fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
martin@ntl
2004-07-11 12:04:00 UTC
Permalink
"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then I'd suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux server. I have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I don't have a spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy one. Maybe I will if I have the time.

As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me to turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another program that does that.

I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although crashes aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my mp3s are recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length, and time passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although they sound ok.


Martin
-----------------------------------


First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I've decided it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won't even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it's still not working.
martin@ntl
2004-07-11 12:04:00 UTC
Permalink
"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then I'd suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux server. I have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I don't have a spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy one. Maybe I will if I have the time.

As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me to turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another program that does that.

I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although crashes aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my mp3s are recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length, and time passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although they sound ok.


Martin
-----------------------------------


First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I've decided it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won't even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it's still not working.
John Hunt
2004-07-11 14:50:41 UTC
Permalink
I notice when it crashes, I lose my internet connection through the main PC
where the music is. It started crashing again today, when it goes, the sever
thinks the player is still there but with only one song on the playlist and
nothing will re-start the internet connection - I can't even see the router
from IE.



It's crashed 3 times after 2-3 songs. If I reboot the PC there and then, it
is ok, if I restart SS, it just hangs, never quite getting to the browser
screen. If I click CANCEL, it offers to shut SS as well, saying yes has no
effect, it looks like it's closed down but both are there in Task Manager,
both hanging on in there when you try and stop them. The PC will not shut
down when this happens. I think it must be corrupting some low-level TCP/IP
stack or something similar if this is what's happening.



John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



_____

From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of martin-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: 11 July 2004 13:04
To: discuss-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [slim] Giving up and sending it back





"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then I'd
suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux server. I
have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I don't have a
spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy one. Maybe I will
if I have the time.



As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I
turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me to
turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another
program that does that.



I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength
dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I
use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed
with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although crashes
aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my mp3s are
recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length, and time
passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although they sound ok.





Martin

-----------------------------------





First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I've decided it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won't even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it's still not working.
Jack Coates
2004-07-11 15:43:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hunt
I notice when it crashes, I lose my internet connection through the main PC
where the music is. It started crashing again today, when it goes, the sever
thinks the player is still there but with only one song on the playlist and
nothing will re-start the internet connection - I can't even see the router
from IE.
It's crashed 3 times after 2-3 songs. If I reboot the PC there and then, it
is ok, if I restart SS, it just hangs, never quite getting to the browser
screen. If I click CANCEL, it offers to shut SS as well, saying yes has no
effect, it looks like it's closed down but both are there in Task Manager,
both hanging on in there when you try and stop them. The PC will not shut
down when this happens. I think it must be corrupting some low-level TCP/IP
stack or something similar if this is what's happening.
Perl has no direct hardware access capability. There are two possiblities:

ZoneAlarm is shutting down your network entirely in some sort of panic mode.

The hardware is failing. Hardware-level lockups of the type you describe
are either hardware failure or a bad driver, and even in Windows there are
few drivers with enough access to completely kill the OS -- generally,
it's only video drivers.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not
fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
John Hunt
2004-07-11 19:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Zonealarm is closed when I run slimserver. Two or 3 others have reported
similar problems, it's unlikely we all have hardware problems. I updated the
drivers and tried again, not even a song played all the way through. No
network problems if I don't run Slim Server - certainly tells me something!

Can I stream using MusicMatch JB? It has a stream to uPnP option but the
squeezebox just looks for the SS. The help files for MM are terrible.

John M Hunt
www.johnmhunt.com
www.silveresk.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jack Coates
Sent: 11 July 2004 16:44
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: RE: [slim] Giving up and sending it back
Post by John Hunt
stack or something similar if this is what's happening.
Perl has no direct hardware access capability. There are two possiblities:

ZoneAlarm is shutting down your network entirely in some sort of panic mode.

The hardware is failing. Hardware-level lockups of the type you describe
are either hardware failure or a bad driver, and even in Windows there are
few drivers with enough access to completely kill the OS -- generally,
it's only video drivers.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not
fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
Jack Coates
2004-07-12 01:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hunt
Zonealarm is closed when I run slimserver. Two or 3 others have reported
similar problems, it's unlikely we all have hardware problems. I updated the
What makes you say that? Once upon a time this same thing happened, and it
turned out to be caused by an Intel NIC where the XP driver was enabling
an option that made things break. That wasn't Slimserver's fault and there
was nothing Slim Devices could do to detect or prevent it until it
happened. I repeat, perl has no hardware access. For your machine to
crash, the OS has to do something wrong or the hardware has to fail. It is
possible for perl to make your machine become temporarily unresponsive by
requesting lots of memory or recursively looping, which is why I suggested
that you start splitting your library and looking for corrupt files and
tags. It is also possible that the extra load of recursive looping is
causing your hardware problem to get bad enough to cause the crash -- this
is in fact highly likely if your machine's power supply is too small or
your CPU is overheating.
Post by John Hunt
drivers and tried again, not even a song played all the way through. No
network problems if I don't run Slim Server - certainly tells me something!
If I leave a piece of meat out in the back forty for a few days, it
develops maggots. This tells me that maggots spontaneously form in rotting
meat, correct? Lots of smart people used to think so, until someone
thought to try letting meat rot in a sealed jar. You've got to think
holistically when troubleshooting computers, cause and effect observation
are useless unless you're tracking all the causes.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not
fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.
Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
John Hunt
2004-07-12 07:24:08 UTC
Permalink
I realised I was using the 3Com adaptor rather than the NVIDIA (the
motherboard has 1 of each built-in) so I've switched them over as the
manufacturers drivers are quite old whereas the NVIDIA is newer. Having said
that, running the server as a service overnight with no front-end has caused
no problems, the player is still playing the list I gave it and it was on
the 3com until this morning.



My PC Is running a new (1 week old) 3000 XP Athlon with new fan, in a case
with 8 other fans and the CPU temperature is 42.1C and the PSU is a 1 week
old 500W.



I'll try splitting the music library.



John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jack Coates
Sent: 12 July 2004 02:01
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: RE: [slim] Giving up and sending it back
Post by John Hunt
Zonealarm is closed when I run slimserver. Two or 3 others have reported
similar problems, it's unlikely we all have hardware problems. I updated
the
What makes you say that? Once upon a time this same thing happened, and it

turned out to be caused by an Intel NIC where the XP driver was enabling

an option that made things break. That wasn't Slimserver's fault and there

was nothing Slim Devices could do to detect or prevent it until it

happened. I repeat, perl has no hardware access. For your machine to

crash, the OS has to do something wrong or the hardware has to fail. It is

possible for perl to make your machine become temporarily unresponsive by

requesting lots of memory or recursively looping, which is why I suggested

that you start splitting your library and looking for corrupt files and

tags. It is also possible that the extra load of recursive looping is

causing your hardware problem to get bad enough to cause the crash -- this

is in fact highly likely if your machine's power supply is too small or

your CPU is overheating.
Post by John Hunt
drivers and tried again, not even a song played all the way through. No
network problems if I don't run Slim Server - certainly tells me
something!
If I leave a piece of meat out in the back forty for a few days, it

develops maggots. This tells me that maggots spontaneously form in rotting

meat, correct? Lots of smart people used to think so, until someone

thought to try letting meat rot in a sealed jar. You've got to think

holistically when troubleshooting computers, cause and effect observation

are useless unless you're tracking all the causes.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,

signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not

fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.

Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

Discuss-***@public.gmane.org

http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
John Hunt
2004-07-13 17:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Still been running since 11th with no problems other than the front-end
losing the play list at one point, closing and re-opening it seemed to fix
it.





John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



_____

From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Hunt
Sent: 12 July 2004 08:24
To: 'Slim Devices Discussion'
Subject: RE: [slim] Giving up and sending it back



I realised I was using the 3Com adaptor rather than the NVIDIA (the
motherboard has 1 of each built-in) so I've switched them over as the
manufacturers drivers are quite old whereas the NVIDIA is newer. Having said
that, running the server as a service overnight with no front-end has caused
no problems, the player is still playing the list I gave it and it was on
the 3com until this morning.



My PC Is running a new (1 week old) 3000 XP Athlon with new fan, in a case
with 8 other fans and the CPU temperature is 42.1C and the PSU is a 1 week
old 500W.



I'll try splitting the music library.



John M Hunt

www.johnmhunt.com

www.silveresk.co.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jack Coates
Sent: 12 July 2004 02:01
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: RE: [slim] Giving up and sending it back
Post by John Hunt
Zonealarm is closed when I run slimserver. Two or 3 others have reported
similar problems, it's unlikely we all have hardware problems. I updated
the
What makes you say that? Once upon a time this same thing happened, and it

turned out to be caused by an Intel NIC where the XP driver was enabling

an option that made things break. That wasn't Slimserver's fault and there

was nothing Slim Devices could do to detect or prevent it until it

happened. I repeat, perl has no hardware access. For your machine to

crash, the OS has to do something wrong or the hardware has to fail. It is

possible for perl to make your machine become temporarily unresponsive by

requesting lots of memory or recursively looping, which is why I suggested

that you start splitting your library and looking for corrupt files and

tags. It is also possible that the extra load of recursive looping is

causing your hardware problem to get bad enough to cause the crash -- this

is in fact highly likely if your machine's power supply is too small or

your CPU is overheating.
Post by John Hunt
drivers and tried again, not even a song played all the way through. No
network problems if I don't run Slim Server - certainly tells me
something!
If I leave a piece of meat out in the back forty for a few days, it

develops maggots. This tells me that maggots spontaneously form in rotting

meat, correct? Lots of smart people used to think so, until someone

thought to try letting meat rot in a sealed jar. You've got to think

holistically when troubleshooting computers, cause and effect observation

are useless unless you're tracking all the causes.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired,

signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not

fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- President Dwight D.

Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

Discuss-***@public.gmane.org

http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Jason
2004-07-11 16:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Your library might have some problems.

Have you tried moving a smaller chunk, say 1000 of your songs only into a
new folder and seeing if the slimserver runs ok? You could have recursively
defined shortcuts in some of your music folders that cause this problem or
you could have some badly corrupted id3 tags which are also causing the
problem.



_____

From: discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of martin-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:04 AM
To: discuss-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [slim] Giving up and sending it back



"easier" is in the eye of the beholder. If you've never used linux then I'd
suggest that it's not easy to install, configure, and use a linux server. I
have been considering it, as a way to teach myself linux, but I don't have a
spare machine to use, and don't at the moment want to buy one. Maybe I will
if I have the time.

As for stability, my work XP machine hasn't crashed in 18 months, though I
turn it off at weekends. So, I'm astonished at Slimserver which forces me to
turn the machine off every hour or two.. I've never come across another
program that does that.

I first thought my XP problem happened when the wireless signal strength
dropped, but I don't think that's the case. The problem seems worse when I
use a large music folder (1500 songs rather than 20, though it's crashed
with a 20 song folder). Perhaps I have some corrupt files, although crashes
aren't associated with particular tracks. I note that some of my mp3s are
recorded on the squeezxebox as 3 or 4 times their real length, and time
passes at 3 or 4 times the normal rate as they play, although they sound ok.


Martin
-----------------------------------


First this is certainly not a fix for any bugs that might be in the XP
version.

However have you considered running a dedicated machine for the
SlimServer, and running Linux on it? Having a dedicated machine is
usually a good idea because you do not want the slimserver interfering
with your main workstation and you do not want disruptions on the main
workstation interfering with the slimserver. Also the slimserver does
not need to be a speed demon. I am using an old Athlon 900 mhz to
server out 3000 songs in FLAC format, and I do transcode to mp3 for my
softsqueeze.

As for using linux on for it. Couple of reasons,
1. Perl works better on linux. ActivePerl for windows is nice, but it
just does not compare to how perl runs on linux.
2. It is easier to keep a liunx box stable than a windows box (note I
said easier, which does not mean it is "always more stable"). I have
had Linux boxes running without reboot for more than 300 days, and
usually then only got rebooted for a kernel patch or I moved.
3. Linux is much easier to strip to a very low overhead system.

Again if there is a bug with the XP version the above is not to say the
fix is to use the linux version. The XP version should be fixed. Just
saying that for any type of "server" I would not use XP as the machine
running the server.
Post by John Hunt
After a week of playing with the Slim Server settings, watching my
computer grinding to a halt, having to constantly reset the Slim Box
I've decided it's going back. It's a great concept but I don't have the
time to strip windows down to the bare bones, remove all electrical
devices nearby or whatever it takes to have both the computer and slim
server talk to each other for more than a few songs.
I've only had one day where it didn't crash the computer completely.
Sorry, it ran for a day or two then I closed it and when I tried to
restart it, it hung so I hit cancel, and tried again and ended up with
two copies of slim.exe running and one of slimserver.exe, all 3
impervious to CTRL-ALT-DEL, when this happens (quite regularly) the
computer won't even shut down, I have to hit reset or pull the power.
I reckon I've spent 12 hours or so far this week on a plug and play
device and it's still not working.
Nick Ford
2004-07-11 12:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Would it be possible to run slimserver from a different box or laptop, to
eliminate any possible hardware issues?

My squeezebox has been running quite happily for some months now - I have a
song collection of about 4500 in FLAC format, and my only problem is a very
occasional dropout. It's certainly not crashed XP (Professional Edition)and
CPU usage seems to stay aroun 5-15% when in use. I rarely reboot my PC,
either.

I tend to use my PC without thinking about Slim running in the background -
downloads, Wordprocessing, browsing etc. Its nemesis is my loosly shielded
microwave, which always does for it if the squeeze is within 10ft or so.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 08/07/2004
martin@ntl
2004-07-12 19:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

Yesterday I switched the screensaver to date/time instead of "now playing" and it ran for 5 hours. I switched back to "Now playing" and it lasted 10 minutes.

I also later downloaded "MP3-library" (can't find the URL now!) whcih claims to be able to fix some mp3 problems. It found two empty mp3 files, and 30 with problems it, which it fixed for me.

I'll try playing music for a while to test it now.. but it'll take me several days to get a feel for whether it's fixed, I think.

Even if the problem is with my files, I still say that Slimserver should NOT cause the operating system to hang. I should be able to tidily close down the process.

Martin
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